2. amps-preamps
  3. 175407-20253

Let me end the Premp/Amplifier sound debate ...

I'm old enough to remember Julian Hersch from Audio magazine and his very unscientific view that all amplifiers sounded the same once they met a certain threshold.  Now the site Audio Science Review pushes the same.

I call these views unscientific as some one with a little bit of an engineering background as well as data science and epidemiology.  I find both of these approaches limited, both in technology used and applied and by stretching the claims for measurements beyond their intention, design and proof of meaning.

Without getting too much into that, I have a very pragmatic point of view.  Listen to the following three amplifier brands:

  • Pass Labs
  • Luxman
  • Ayre

If you can't hear a difference, buy the cheapest amplifier you can.  You'll be just as happy.  However, if you can, you need to evaluate the value of the pleasure of the gear next to your pocket book and buy accordingly.  I don't think the claim that some gear is pure audio jewelry, like a fancy watch which doesn't tell better time but looks pretty.  I get that, and I've heard that.  However, rather than try to use a method from Socrates to debate an issue to the exact wrong conclusion, listen for yourself.

If you wonder if capacitors sound different, build a two way and experiment for yourself.  Doing this leaves you with a very very different perspective than those who haven't. You'll also, in both cases, learn about yourself.  Are you someone who can't hear a difference?  Are you some one who can? What if you are some one who can hear a difference and doesn't care?  That's fine.  Be true to yourself, but I find very little on earth less worthwhile than having arguments about measurements vs. sound quality and value. 

To your own self and your own ears be true.  And if that leads you to a crystal radio and piezo ear piece so be it.  In my own system, and with my own speakers I've reached these conclusions for myself and I have very little concern for those who want to argue against my experiences and choices. 

 

erik_squires
djones51
4,947 posts
 

Use a DMM at the speaker terminals and a test tone to level match. It's more accurate using voltage.

ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 

Voltage from a tube amplifier OPT will vary considerably depending on the speaker impedance at the test frequency.

The ENTIRE UBoob demo idea is nonsense from the git-go

 

toddalin's avatar
toddalin
306 posts
 

Like I said, you are only listening for a difference, no matter how small or which you care for. If you can hear a difference, then YouTube is capable of displaying/resolving this difference.

And no one is saying that either is exactly as how it sounds in the room or that the videos convey the finer points such as soundstage and imaging. Again, we are only listening for differences in what we can hear.

And the original premiss was that all amps sound the same, but obviously, depending on the speakers used, they don’t, and I’ve demonstrated that.

toddalin's avatar
toddalin
306 posts
 

djones51, do you not hear the differences in the videos, especially from the Heil? I matched the levels to within 0.1 dB. Do you really think that changing the output voltage on one amp or the other by maybe a couple thousanths of a volt is really going to create that much shift in the frequency spectrum as opposed to one being maybe a tiny bit louder?  Let's be realistic.

djones51
4,947 posts
 

I can hear a very slight difference but listening to Youtube doesn’t prove anything. The OP can speak for himself but my position is different amps that measure close and are not driven outside their limits would be very hard if not impossible to tell apart. Listening to your tracks if I didn’t know which was which I couldn’t tell the tube from the SS. You should not have labeled them and I doubt these 2 amps measure similar. 

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