Yes Sabai, I have followed your comments here. And right out of the gate, you wasted no time to bash the report of the shootout. I found it rather disrespectful and ignorant as you disregarded much of what I and others found to be of value.
I could understand if the shootout was a tube preamp loaded with various tube types. My own experience tells me that it can take months to find a tube set that brings such a product to a new level, often never even being heard by its designer. But the shootout was CD players not loaded with tubes.
Adding/trying all sorts of combinations of footers on all the players could take a lot of time. I have heard the benefits of such products (Stillpoints) on the APL player and the Aria/Counterpoint components. They brought on greater decays which can not be explained but I heard what I heard. But they did not turn a dimensionally flat component into sudden magical 3D. This is what you are implying here with your experience and I just don't buy it.
Of course cable changes make a difference here, whether ICs or PCs. But again, there's just no way anyone can be expected to have the time or opportunity to try everything out there. How is this report different from any audio magazine review out there when a comparative product is brought into the picture? The shootout went far beyond any magazine review to report how the players sounded in one system in their stock format, no footers, tweaks, etc. Once the baselines had been achieved, another round could have been made for each player to try various ICs and PCs. But considering all that had been done and was reported, I was very appreciative for the time that Pete took to share with the A'gon members here.
As for this report here not doing "any justice" to a component, again, how is this different from any other review. All such a report can do is expose the rest of us to an introduction to a product. It is up to us to get the product, try it in our system. And if we sense it may stand out from the crowd, live with it longer and go through the refinement process of tube-rolling, various cable trials, footers, etc. Using your philosophy of needing to try every cable and tweak out there before a review/report is made, all such reports from the past are null and void.
I am one of those who tried a power conditioner (RS Haley) on the APL Denon player and got quite a boost in performance. I also concluded that the system sounded better with the player into a line stage (Aesthetix Callisto Sig) or the Bent Silver TVC. And then my discovery of the tube change on the player too. This was contrary to the view of Alex P.
Perhaps one thing to do in the future when such a shootout is made is to contact each manufacturer to get the recommended footer (if any) and PC and perhaps the IC. But unless those cables are tonally coherent (neutral) and the rest of the system is as well (highly unlikely except in the top-tier of systems), cable changes are likely to just be complimentary to other flaws in the system....a concept often referred to as synergy but I consider a tonal bandaid.
The only reviewer out there that I know of that comes even close to doing what you "require" is Roy Gregory of HiFi+. It's a daunting effort to do this each and every time a product is evaluated.
I could understand if the shootout was a tube preamp loaded with various tube types. My own experience tells me that it can take months to find a tube set that brings such a product to a new level, often never even being heard by its designer. But the shootout was CD players not loaded with tubes.
Adding/trying all sorts of combinations of footers on all the players could take a lot of time. I have heard the benefits of such products (Stillpoints) on the APL player and the Aria/Counterpoint components. They brought on greater decays which can not be explained but I heard what I heard. But they did not turn a dimensionally flat component into sudden magical 3D. This is what you are implying here with your experience and I just don't buy it.
Of course cable changes make a difference here, whether ICs or PCs. But again, there's just no way anyone can be expected to have the time or opportunity to try everything out there. How is this report different from any audio magazine review out there when a comparative product is brought into the picture? The shootout went far beyond any magazine review to report how the players sounded in one system in their stock format, no footers, tweaks, etc. Once the baselines had been achieved, another round could have been made for each player to try various ICs and PCs. But considering all that had been done and was reported, I was very appreciative for the time that Pete took to share with the A'gon members here.
As for this report here not doing "any justice" to a component, again, how is this different from any other review. All such a report can do is expose the rest of us to an introduction to a product. It is up to us to get the product, try it in our system. And if we sense it may stand out from the crowd, live with it longer and go through the refinement process of tube-rolling, various cable trials, footers, etc. Using your philosophy of needing to try every cable and tweak out there before a review/report is made, all such reports from the past are null and void.
I am one of those who tried a power conditioner (RS Haley) on the APL Denon player and got quite a boost in performance. I also concluded that the system sounded better with the player into a line stage (Aesthetix Callisto Sig) or the Bent Silver TVC. And then my discovery of the tube change on the player too. This was contrary to the view of Alex P.
Explaining how I improved the sound of my EMM is offered as proof.Everyone in this thread is well aware of finding ways to improve the performance of each component in their system. We were all "there" before you joined this thread.
but proof that you can do a lot with it to take the sound to a much higher level -- which the shoot-out made no attempt to do. That's all I am saying.No, essentially what you said was that the shootout was worthless since it did not go through months and months of time to try out all the combinations of external products to "optimize" each CD player. And I do not agree with your conclusion. I simply saw the shootout as a first pass of the products in review.
Perhaps one thing to do in the future when such a shootout is made is to contact each manufacturer to get the recommended footer (if any) and PC and perhaps the IC. But unless those cables are tonally coherent (neutral) and the rest of the system is as well (highly unlikely except in the top-tier of systems), cable changes are likely to just be complimentary to other flaws in the system....a concept often referred to as synergy but I consider a tonal bandaid.
The only reviewer out there that I know of that comes even close to doing what you "require" is Roy Gregory of HiFi+. It's a daunting effort to do this each and every time a product is evaluated.