Let me end the Premp/Amplifier sound debate ...
I'm old enough to remember Julian Hersch from Audio magazine and his very unscientific view that all amplifiers sounded the same once they met a certain threshold. Now the site Audio Science Review pushes the same.
I call these views unscientific as some one with a little bit of an engineering background as well as data science and epidemiology. I find both of these approaches limited, both in technology used and applied and by stretching the claims for measurements beyond their intention, design and proof of meaning.
Without getting too much into that, I have a very pragmatic point of view. Listen to the following three amplifier brands:
If you can't hear a difference, buy the cheapest amplifier you can. You'll be just as happy. However, if you can, you need to evaluate the value of the pleasure of the gear next to your pocket book and buy accordingly. I don't think the claim that some gear is pure audio jewelry, like a fancy watch which doesn't tell better time but looks pretty. I get that, and I've heard that. However, rather than try to use a method from Socrates to debate an issue to the exact wrong conclusion, listen for yourself.
If you wonder if capacitors sound different, build a two way and experiment for yourself. Doing this leaves you with a very very different perspective than those who haven't. You'll also, in both cases, learn about yourself. Are you someone who can't hear a difference? Are you some one who can? What if you are some one who can hear a difference and doesn't care? That's fine. Be true to yourself, but I find very little on earth less worthwhile than having arguments about measurements vs. sound quality and value.
To your own self and your own ears be true. And if that leads you to a crystal radio and piezo ear piece so be it. In my own system, and with my own speakers I've reached these conclusions for myself and I have very little concern for those who want to argue against my experiences and choices.
@holmz your post on different systems sounding loud at different SPL is fascinating and fits my experience too. Listening to a friends system, records and tubes and high efficiency speakers I was shocked it measured 100+ Db but didn’t sound’ loud’. My system can be at 50db and be plenty loud. But I don’t understand that at all. Do you have some insight? Hopefully this is on-topic but so it goes. |
No insight I would say is objective and provable. But I think it is about distortion and and higher order harmonics. The “quiet loudness” is something I do not hear often. Mostly because I do not hear nice systems too often. |
Dear @erik_squires : " but I find very little on earth less worthwhile than having arguments about measurements vs. sound quality and value. " Specific in audio measurements were not developed to have a direct relationship to an specific sound reproduction characteristics. Measurements can't tell us which will be the sound quality level of " that " audio item. Today measurements helps for we can have an " idea " if " that " audio item could handle " my " speakers but certainly not how those speakers will sound paired with. Measurements can't do that because in audio MUSIC/sound individual perception/sensitivity we are really complex and exist to many parameters that has direct or indirect relationship with what we " like ", including each one room/system targets. We all have some first hand experiences that has not a " measurements " explanations. I experienced not one but more times that I was in audio " heaven " listening my system and with out change anything and listening the same source tracks next day at the same hour that " magic " just disappeared ! !. Many times in audio happens " unexpected things " that happens because those to many parameters that surround all what we hear. Our ears as ears per sé are not good enough to listen MUSIC the first problem is that are frequency limited fortunatelly we listen/hear through all our body and we have a brain that receives the electrical information from million of body sensors that pick-up the overall " sound ". But not only the sound information that is pick-up is what we are listening, exist something that has a direct and critical effects in what we are listening and that " something " is our " mood/emotions " at the time of listen sessions and till today does not exist measurements regarding those sensors and far away measurements on how affects our listening time " mood ". Our bones, sking, hair and all our senses detect/tell us minute changes in SPL, movement, faster/slow, temperature, distance and the like, even can detect when " some one " is looking directly to us. The frequency range of our body is really wider of what we could think even over gentlemans of 70 years old. We can " listen " from below 4hz-5hz to over 60khz. Even what we wear affects our " perception " of what we are listening. If we wear natural fabrics as cotton or wool against synthetic fibers as polyester and the like our sound perception changes. Any one can make a test ( I already did it ) and listen " naked " with no wear and you can listen the change for the better other that we don't feel confortable in naked fashion because we are not accustom to. Ouir brain/body is the best measurements laboratory over the world that unfortunatelly exist not yet scientific studies on the whole subject. Is to complex, even to create a mathematics model of it. What we like in audio has a direct relationship with our audio life experiences and MUSIC live events experiences , it's of what we are accustomed and accustom to. Of course that quality designs and excecution of that design of our room/systems audio items have a relationship too because is what we experienced through our audio life and what we today are listening to. There are important item specs that we have to take in count when we want to buy a new audio item: frequency range, THD, IMD, sensitivity, output level, headroom, overload level, accuracy, output/input impedance, , etc, etc. Specs can tell us, more or less, if an audio item could be a good match in our system but can't tell us the grade of quality improvement we will have till we listen it. Almost all of us can hear " differences " through item comparisons/evaluations/tests or change of electronics inside devices if we know what to look for. We need references, nothing can be at random our brain has in stock millions and millions of references when we are doing any kind of system evaluations that " modulate " what we like what we preffer. Two months ago I decided to change the power supply 24K capacitors in my Levinson monoblocks and I don't decided because the amplifiers been running with a " problem ". I decided because those monobloks have over 30 years that were manufactured, so I did not wait to change it when the amps showed a failure that could be " catastrophic ". I was not waiting for any improvement due that the amps were working truly fine. I ordered those four Vishay electrolytic caps ( same caps as the original ones. ) and made the change, obviously that after the caps change I wanted to listen and I did it and just from the first MUSIC note I heard a significant improvement that was truly unexpected. Good for my system and my MUSIC enjoyment. I have pother similar experiences and I could tell were and are learning experiences. Good that exit measuremenst and good that STPH magazine does it, always welcomed. As better, wider and higher measurements we have as better decisions we can take . The histories like the Carver ones are reference of nothing, we are in 2022 where many past/vintage " things " already changed several years ago.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R.
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