Amir and Blind Testing

@bruce19 But much of the audiophile pursuit is just pushing boundaries a few percent or less at a time. That is where the really big money gets spent and ironically that is where data is almost never presented.

Yes - step outside the echo chamber that is so entrenched by decades of big money, deflection, dishonesty, manipulation and other unethical norms of behavior.   It won't hurt very much :-)

I’m relatively new to high end audio after listen to Spotify on an Amazon echo speaker for many years. I recently got a space where I could pull out my 30 year old college system - haffler amp, nad pre, and definitive tech speakers. I got tidal plugged in my iPhone and was very happy. Then I got tired of not having a volume remote and replaced the preamp with a new one (tube preamp from audio van alstine). The immediate difference was gigantic and I was shocked a pre amp made such as difference. I’ve since replaced all my gear…node streamer, Pontus DAC, van alsten amp, and audio physic speakers. 
 

here is my opinion on the matter (just my simple one man’s world view…):

there are 3 kinds of system “improvements” or “investments”

1. Something that clearly makes a difference and you can A/b test all you like yo prove it but any rational person will hear it. This was the case of my pre-amp. It’s also the difference between echo speaker and my 5k speakers! These are rare examples probably only for those who are starting out in this hobby. 
 

2. something that sounds better but is subtle and hard to distinguish when doing some basic A/B testing. But over weeks and doing lots of listening you get there. This is real but it’s subtle and it comes down to hearing same source differently on the different devices. When i added a DAC to replace my node internal DAC (originally with denafrips ares) this happened. Immediately the sounds wasn’t that different. But over time I could hear it. Could still be bias or whatever but to me I can hear things better than before. 
 

3. the last category is things that make us “feel better” but have no sound quality improvement. This is most controversial but it shouldn’t be. When I replaced my radio shack speaker cables with BlueJeans custom made/welded cables I felt better but nothing sounded better. Same for the 100 dollar power cord I got for my amp. Does anything sound better because if this - hell no. But I have a 10k stereo system and I feel better with using quality cables. Nothing wrong with that. For instance - if someone wants to spend 5k on a PS audio power conditioner or whatever that’s their business. It won’t do anything for sound quality at all. But having clean power feeding a very expensive and special system isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It would certainly make me feel better about my system. 
 

I enjoy reading ASR and then then reactions at the other forums about this topic of measurement and A/B testing. Been thinking and reflecting a lot about it myself and therefore wantEd to put my thoughts down. Thank you for listening. 

**** We use the tools at our disposal to assess and make decisions. Some do it better than others …… **** - mapman

…. and this includes the best tool of all, our ears. IOW, some use their ears better than others. Some, because of experience, training, open-mindedness, or simply physiological advantage hear better than others. Hard pill to swallow for some, but true.

It gets so tiresome, the continual attempt on the part of some to tell others that they can’t possibly be hearing what they hear. Whether it is an “improvement” or not depends on what one’s goal is. If the goal is a subjectively pleasant sound without consideration of any reference other than personal taste, then all bets are off and there is no point in debating the issue. If the goal is to get as close as possible to the true sound of music, then the more exposure to live acoustic music the listener pursues, the better the chances of recognizing real improvement and reaching the goal; yes, all those variables and all. Those who claim that all those pesky variables are a “deal breaker” are simply using too broad a brush when listening and not willing, or able to do their homework (live acoustic music exposure).

@daveinpa - Heck of a first post.  IMO, you nailed the three levels of system improvements, which are very similar in my world:

1. Clearly
2. Subtly
3. Maybe (not) 

Great descriptions of how these affected your system building.  Well done.

I just acquired a new piece. Not able to hear it prior. Had to make a decision without hearing. I did that based on experience with similar gear what I read + my own personal assessment of what could fit the bill. Bought from a vendor with a very good return policy since yes you never know for sure until you hear or try.

I consider the whole measure versus listen argument just a bunch of gaslighting. Sometimes you can’t hear first so you have to decide based on other things like the facts about how a product is advertised to perform and how it actually does. Specs are good for helping make decisions about what to listen to. Measurements are supplemental pieces of info that can help but only if applied properly which takes some degree of knowledge. Which is why as I said we all use the tools available to us to decide. Obviously our own ears are the ultimate test. Just ignore fanatics where ever they might pop up.