Another “How to choose an arm” question

Here is a good site which you can input many variables to see if a particular arm and cart will be acceptable together:

http://www.mh-audio.nl/Calculators/RF.html

 

That site also links to a database, but the SAEC WE317 is not listed. I says in the details that it is a high mass arm.  

My view is from a relative ’newby’ getting back into vinyl over the last few years. I’m sure others will have views with more years being active in vinyl. I had put my rig away over 25 years ago before getting back into it recently.

Just get a good quality arm regardless. Don’t skimp here if looking for something new.

Thanks @bkeske I am trying to figure out whether my are is good quality to begin with. I think it is, or it is good enough. But I have no way of knowing… and don/t really know the effective mass.

 

I also took advantage of Sota's Series V suspension and bearing/platter upgrade at the same time and couldn't be happier with the overall package.  It's everything I expected in my upgrade from my old Magnepan Unitrac and more versatile by a wide margin.

Thanks @effischer I’ll ask Christian about the V suspension.

 

 

@mijostyn I didn;t know you had a Sota.

@holmz , You are getting some really great advice here. As a long term Sota user I would like to add some thoughts. There are several great arms out there that fit the Sota perfectly. As Lew suggests it is always better to stay on the light side as you can always add mass but taking it away can be tough. Your Sota suspension is tuned for a specific tonearm mass. Depending on the age of your table it can be done by adding/subtracting lead shot from a well or using a specifically weighted tonearm board. Once you buy the arm you want to use, weight the arm itself with all the parts attached. Do not weight the cable. Then call Donna at Sota with your Sota's serial number and the tonearm weight. She will supply you with the correct arm board.

Donna Christian mentioned 2#15’ as the total tonearm, head shell, cartridge and board weight.

Tonearms that I know work beautifully on the Sapphire and are of top notch design are the Kuzma 4 Point 9, the Origin Live arms,

I would prefer to avoid the Origin Live based upon my good friend;s experience… (Difficult to set up, wired wrong, and customer service)

the Rega arms, the Audiomods arm , SME arms and the Schroder CB. There are very few cartridges out there that can not be made to work in any of these arms. IMHO the three best arms are the SME V, the Kuzma 4 Point9 and the Schroder CB.

My friend ended up with the Kuzma 4.9

These three hit all design points I want to see in an arm. There are others out there like the Tri Planar which are great arms but will not fit the Sapphire without modifying the plinth.

I would be wiling to modify the plinth to take a TriPlanner - If (and only If) it offered me some substantially better sound than the SAEC WE317. Maybe that is solely in terms of resonance? 

Would upgrading the arm be worthwhile? I think so, particularly if you go with one of the three arms I mentioned. You will certainly be able to use more cartridges in the medium compliance range. Your SEAC arm is going to work best with something like a Koetsu, cartridges in the lowest compliance group. 

I am not adverse to running a low compliance cartridge. The Garrott Bros p77i is working well.

I have had my eye on the Hana ML and some of the SoundSmith ones.

So if the SAEC arm is good, but only with a low compliance cartridge, then I think it is more cost effective to hunt for the cartridge that fits the arm’s effective mass??

 

One more point is that you can upgrade your Sota to the Eclipse drive system, the magnetic bearing,  and even a vacuum system. Very few tables can take you that far

Christian and I (and Donna) have been in discussion for 1/2 year and the units are coming up to production soonish. 

I borrowed the good doctor’s stethoscope yesterday to listen to whether the bearings were making sound… It was absolutely “dead” sounding.

 

@rauliruegas I am guess that the reed would be the 9.5” with the 223mm mounting radius? 

@holmz , I have a brand new Cosmos. I would wait on the Eclipse upgrade. When they unified the two components onto one chassis they chose a complicated switching algorithm that is not working well. The turntable runs fine but when you turn it on it has a tendency to switch speeds so you have to tap the button again to get back to 33. I am on my second unit now and it is better but nowhere near perfect. Personally I think they need to change the design and add a forth switch separating the on/off function from the speed change function. They'll get it figured out eventually. 

As you suggest it would be much more efficient to just get a new cartridge. A low compliance Soundsmith would work great. The Sussurro mkII is the sweet spot in that part of the line. This is a much superior cartridge to any of the Hanas. It is very neutral and tracks great. 

The Reeds will require modifying the plinth. It also might be too heavy but I am not sure. This also goes for the Tri Planar. If you like the Tri Planar you really should have a good look at the Schroder CB. The CB simple as it looks is IMHO a better arm. It is every bit as adjustable, has better bearings, and magnetic anti skate and damping that works fabulously well. 

As you suggest it would be much more efficient to just get a new cartridge. A low compliance Soundsmith would work great. The Sussurro mkII is the sweet spot in that part of the line. This is a much superior cartridge to any of the Hanas. It is very neutral and tracks great.

I have 49 dB of gain available, and the SS sheet on that cart says recommended gain=58-64 dB.

There is also a SUT with 11 dB of gain which would bump me to 60dB…
But can one even use a SUT on a MI or MM cart?

 

Good info on awaiting the ECLIPSE... and more waiting is OK.
They also said that a 230v version would be a bit longer. That was maybe Aug.Sep last year, and they anticipated Feb 2022… I assume that most things run behind with the global transport etc.

 

The Sussurro was apparently Schroder inspired.
I am using a DIY alloy plate for the arm board, so I should remove it and weigh it.
I do not recall if I removed any weights (or if there were any) in the pockets at the corners… so I’ll ask Christian in a week or two.

On using a SUT with an MM or MI cartridge, generally the answer is no. The one exception is for a low output MI that also has a low internal impedance, which I think describes the Sussuro.

@holmz , Frank Schroder and Peter Ledermann have been friends for a long time. Peter's demonstration rig has a Schroder Reference Arm on it and there must have been 4 or 5 other Schroder arms hanging around when I was there. 

I am not sure about a transformer with Soundsmith cartridges but you certainly do no have enough gain for a Sussurro. But, what you do have enough gain for is The Voice which is nothing more than a high output Sussurro. Same stylus, same cantilever same drive mechanism. The only difference is the coils have more windings and the compliance is set higher which is the problem for you. At 22 um/mN it might be too soft for your arm. It works perfectly in the Schroder CB. Using the Certal plate I get a horizontal resonance frequency right at 8 Hz. 

With a larger arm like that you really need a Phono stage suitable for low output cartridges. There are several really good high output cartridges out there but the majority of them are mid to high compliance. I think the Nagaoka MP 500 has a lower compliance but I am not sure. You have any number of directions you can head in. I am not a big transformer fan. I do not like more contacts and interconnects in the way of the very low signal from the cartridge. I think if you want to go with a low output cartridge you should upgrade your phono stage. If you want to go high level you will benefit from a lighter arm. @rauliruegas seems to know more about your arm than I do and he might be able to add more advice.