2. amps-preamps
  3. 175407-20253

Let me end the Premp/Amplifier sound debate ...

I'm old enough to remember Julian Hersch from Audio magazine and his very unscientific view that all amplifiers sounded the same once they met a certain threshold.  Now the site Audio Science Review pushes the same.

I call these views unscientific as some one with a little bit of an engineering background as well as data science and epidemiology.  I find both of these approaches limited, both in technology used and applied and by stretching the claims for measurements beyond their intention, design and proof of meaning.

Without getting too much into that, I have a very pragmatic point of view.  Listen to the following three amplifier brands:

  • Pass Labs
  • Luxman
  • Ayre

If you can't hear a difference, buy the cheapest amplifier you can.  You'll be just as happy.  However, if you can, you need to evaluate the value of the pleasure of the gear next to your pocket book and buy accordingly.  I don't think the claim that some gear is pure audio jewelry, like a fancy watch which doesn't tell better time but looks pretty.  I get that, and I've heard that.  However, rather than try to use a method from Socrates to debate an issue to the exact wrong conclusion, listen for yourself.

If you wonder if capacitors sound different, build a two way and experiment for yourself.  Doing this leaves you with a very very different perspective than those who haven't. You'll also, in both cases, learn about yourself.  Are you someone who can't hear a difference?  Are you some one who can? What if you are some one who can hear a difference and doesn't care?  That's fine.  Be true to yourself, but I find very little on earth less worthwhile than having arguments about measurements vs. sound quality and value. 

To your own self and your own ears be true.  And if that leads you to a crystal radio and piezo ear piece so be it.  In my own system, and with my own speakers I've reached these conclusions for myself and I have very little concern for those who want to argue against my experiences and choices. 

 

erik_squires
phd
1,283 posts
 

I thought "a straight wire with gain"  is unachievable currently but would be the most desirable scenario for ultimately the best possible sound.

erik_squires OP
15,946 posts
 

I thought "a straight wire with gain"  is unachievable currently but would be the most desirable scenario for ultimately the best possible sound.

 

The question to my mind is, always, is this an intellectual desire or a desire of the heart?  Does your heart want a straight wire with gain or does it want something engaging? Sometimes those match, sometimes they do not.

Much of our joy and passion in audio comes from pursuing loftiness.  Big ideals, and, to me, denying our passion which has no ruler to use when enjoying music.

erik_squires OP
15,946 posts
 

BTW, my point to this whole thread is that there are those of us with experience, who are confident in it, and those who lack it. The gap cannot be closed by argument. The proof is in the number of posts this thread has already.

The debate here is endless. Go get experience for yourself and then decide what to do.

The trap is that with enough discourse something better emerges, or a position that needs no defense can be defended. I don't care if you believe me or not.  You need to believe yourself.  The second worst outcome in audio is "I spent a ton of money on an amp this guy on Audiogon said was his favorite but I can't tell a difference between it and my $10 earbuds."

ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 

@phd 

I thought "a straight wire with gain"  is unachievable currently but would be the most desirable scenario for ultimately the best possible sound.

From the musician onward through the instrument, studio or venue, microphone, cables, pre-amp, mixing desk, recorder... everything adds coloration.

Some only listen to chamber music, others acid rock, so their preferred distortions are widely divergent. Neither would likely prefer a SWwG system over their flawed but cherished one.

Oh, and btw, Masters make about 50% more than PhDs. 😏

atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,640 posts
 

I thought "a straight wire with gain"  is unachievable currently but would be the most desirable scenario for ultimately the best possible sound.

It isn't. An amplifier often has to behave as a voltage source, since most speakers are meant to be driven by such. A wire is incapable of this behavior, even if it had gain 😉

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