2. misc-audio
  3. 175682-1635

Amir and Blind Testing

Let me start by saying I like watching Amir from ASR, so please let’s not get harsh or the thread will be deleted. Many times, Amir has noted that when we’re inserting a new component in our system, our brains go into (to paraphrase) “analytical mode” and we start hearing imaginary improvements. He has reiterated this many times, saying that when he switched to an expensive cable he heard improvements, but when he switched back to the cheap one, he also heard improvements because the brain switches from “music enjoyment mode” to “analytical mode.” Following this logic, which I agree with, wouldn’t blind testing, or any A/B testing be compromised because our brains are always in analytical mode and therefore feeding us inaccurate data? Seems to me you need to relax for a few hours at least and listen to a variety of music before your brain can accurately assess whether something is an actual improvement.  Perhaps A/B testing is a strawman argument, because the human brain is not a spectrum analyzer.  We are too affected by our biases to come up with any valid data.  Maybe. 

chayro
laoman's avatar
laoman
444 posts
 

" the manufacturer is not willing to foot the expense of well conducted, objectively fair listening tests to support their claim "

What is measured? Sinad? Look up how useful sinad is and you will see that it is not that useful.

chayro OP
2,997 posts
 

Actually- this thread was not about electronic measurements.  It was about Amir’s observation about the human brain and its ability to hear non-existent improvements when switching components because we start listening in an “analytical mode” when we are testing hifi equipment. Of course, Amir is not an expert in psycho acoustics, but I thought it was an interesting concept and many members related to it to some degree. The human sensory system is so easily fooled. Ever take one of those flight simulator rides at Disney?  Vibrate the seat, tilt it back and show us a video of flying and we swear we are traveling through space. A little scary how easily our senses can be deceived. What do we do with this knowledge?  Whatever you want, that’s what.

djones51
4,947 posts
 

course, Amir is not an expert in psycho acoustics,

Fortunately there is an expert who graciously contributes his knowledge at ASR 

 

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/jjs-signal-processing-and-psychoacoustics-master-library.2066/

djones51
4,947 posts
 

What is measured? Sinad? Look up how useful sinad is and you will see that it is not that useful.

SINAD is useful but it's not the only thing measured. It seems to me the amount of half truths and downright nonsense posted here about ASR borders on paranoia. Perhaps it's because they are a growing presence and some feel threatened but after all it's just another website the deals with measurements and objective and to some degree subject aspects of high fidelity playback systems. You dont have to take everything presented there as gospel but with an open mind you might surprise yourself as to what you might learn. 

mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,102 posts
 

Thanks for the reference... Very interesting set of articles !

But i was talking about small room acoustic and psycho-acoustic of small room...

And it is a field in itself...

And if you read the site all is about psycho-acoustic and digital technology....

Almost anything about small room acoustic...

What matters for them, at least for Amirm are the tools to measure human hearing in sound PRODUCTION... Not about sound ACOUSTIC TRANSLATION in a small room...Signal processing is not room acoustic....

I dont suggest here that this prycho- acoustician who work with them know less than me... I am not an acoustician myself for sure... I only express my opinion about the emphasis put on DIGITAL TECH. and hearing abilities in the digital tech.context, not in the relation between physical acoustic and psycho-acoustic in small room , which is a field in itself...

My point is that ANY measures of the gear must be subordinated to the small room/ speakers relation and specific ears abilities and listening history of the owner of the room... Because CHOOSING a piece of gear at his peak working potential ask for the guiding listener/customer subjective impression in a room not only about some electronical measures of the gear...A point that NO ACOUSTICIAN can contradict by the way.... Even this one....

 

In a word what these articles spoke about centered around digital tech. EQUALIZATION, my own approach to room acoustic centered around more Primitive so to speak, Helmholtz MECHANICAL approach... I will read these articles because psycho-acoustic dont change his principles from the digital field to room acoustic...

But in digital tech. the focus is in the technology itself, in room acoustic the focus is around the owner of the small room... Some subjective impressions are  at the center of the matter here;  AFTER an objective disposition of the acoustic content of the room in relation with the specific abilities and limitations of the room owner...

Of course, Amir is not an expert in psycho acoustics,

Fortunately there is an expert who graciously contributes his knowledge at ASR

 

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/jjs-signal-processing-and-psychoacoustics-master-library.2066/

 

 

More to discover