Another “How to choose an arm” question


I currently have a Sota Saphire running an SAEC We317 arm (221mm spindle to pivot and 12 mm overhang).

That is running a Garrott Bros p77i, but I have been looking at some LOMC cartridges, as well as SoundSmith LO-MI, AT ART, etc.

How is one supposed to determine their current arm is good or not?

It sounds fine and I would think that the knife edge design is not prone to a lot of wear.
However it was recommend that I upgrade the arm… But how would I know “to what”, and how would I know if the upgrade is worthwhile?

I was looking at some DD tables to have a more expanded choice of arms that can be mounted, as the Sota is a bit restrictive in that regard. That is still on the cards as a possibility… however assuming that the Sota is a keeper, then how do I determine the arm’s adequacy, being “fit for purpose”?

128x128holmz

Dear @mijostyn  :  "  I do compare digital to analog versions of various recordings by synchronizing the record to the digital then just switch back and forth by remote. "

I was sort of talking about the idea of objective comparison, so they also would need to be sync’ed in phase/speed.

 

Comparing analog to digital versions in reality for me is really easy, the only main issue is that SPL be evenly for both formats.

One of my last comparisons was:

Diana Krall - When I Look in Your Eyes "

.

In reality I'm not anal to take my time doing those comparisons. I'm  a way more interested to listen and enjoy my MUSIC sessions

That last part sort of goes contrary to the majorly of your posts, which talked about bearing chatter and noises from the arm, that was the subject of the thread title.

@rauliruegas , Isn't it fun! You bet people would be surprised how it cuts both ways. In reality it is not being fair to vinyl as it has a steep up hill battle but, better is better be it the format or the mastering. What I really love are some of the BluRay concerts that are available like Return to Forever "Returns." It is almost as good as being at the real concert. The audio is spectacular. Another one is Mike Stern's Paris Concert with Dave Weckyl on drums. There are times when vinyl wins. It is like driving a manual. It takes more skill even if it is not as fast. That makes it more fun. Any monkey can slide a disc into a drive:-)

I have compared a TT Set Up the a CD Set Up on quite a few occasions and more recently in a another owned system, I was fortunate to be able to have a first time experience of trying out three sources as a comparison, where the finding were reassuring to myself.

A comparison took place of Technics SP10R > Glanz Arm > Miyajima Cart', a CD Source from Wadia and the EAR Acute and a latest generation Linn Streamer and the outcome was quite a surprise for me.  

As said this is not my first Rodeo when it comes to experiencing a Vinyl LP Source and CD Source as a comparison. I have a history of doing comparisons between a Vinyl LP Source and CD Source going back tothe 90's and these continued through to to the time I have been a user of CD Source within my system.

Since having a CD Source in my system, I have also been able to carry out comparisons of my CD Set Up in comparison to a selection of owned TT's with differing Tonearms and Cartridges as ancillaries.

As this thread is about ideas on selecting a Tonearm I will try and keep the recollections of the experiences focused on the Tonearms that have been used.

In my listening environment, there is a dedicated method in place to mount a TT and a CDT > DAC. Each method for mounting has be carried using methods that have shown there is a noticeable attraction to the use of a Support Material and method chosen for the mounting.

I have compared Three of my owned Tonearms on two different Motor Drive Design TT's.

The Idler Drive TT, as far as I am concerned is mounted into its final plinth material and there is not a need in my mind to make any further changes, the only further changes that can happen by myself, is to use other ancillaries, which on this TT may produce subtle changes to the perceived SQ on offer, whether for the better is an unknown.

The DD TT's are not in yet mounted in the Densified Wood Plinth Material I wish to see them mounted in, the required materials are owned and a job in waiting and sooon to be completed for one of the Brands.

One of the Brands is mounted in a material that is known to have a increased density and is recognised to have a improved Intrinsic Damping and Dissipation Properties, when compared to many materials selected for a Plinth. The material in use at present on the DD TT, is a less attractive material than a Densified Wood, but does have a proportion of the most desired properties .    

My experiences have shown that when swapping the DD  TT from the Plinth material in use and into a standard type plinth material, there is a noticeable difference and the material of choice that is in use at the present, is the most attractive to be used.

The use of the material used to produce a Plinth is quite a important consideration as it can have a remarkable impact on how the overall delivery of the LP replay is being perceived, especially if being assessed in a analytical listening discipline.

I expect my DD TT's to improve for the better when they are mounted in a Densified Wood Plinth, which will in my view make a further division between how they compare to a CD replay using the same recorded tracks.

A Idler Drive TT used with a Audiomods Tonearm and Hana SL Cartridge and AT-150 MLX Cart' is a fair match to my CD Source, once the SPL adjustments are worked out, the differences detected are not too far apart, and usually the most noticeable differences from recollection have been detected from the bass note. Also what has been of interest is that the MM that has not been used by myself regularly for many years, has shown I still have a attraction for it in use, and I can see myself returning to the use of MM's when the ears are a little less young. 

The same Idler Drive TT used with a Audio Technica 1100 Tonearm and AT 150 MLX Cartridge are also has been perceived from recollections, as a fair match to my CD Source. Again, once the SPL adjustments are worked out, the differences detected are not too far apart, and remain as the previous, where the most noticeable differences from recollection have been detected from the Bass note. 

The DD TT used in a not so commonly seen selected Plinth Material, and used with ancillaries such as a, Bespoke Produced Tonearm with a Bespoke Built MC Cart' has shown a remarkable improvement over the CD replays, there is very  detectable differences for the better, when making recollections of the perceptions that were happening. The CD is undoubtedly perceived as an inferior medium being used, when replayed on my CD Source and compared to the Vinyl Source chosen.

This experience is also seconded by a EE friend who has carried out very high quality projects all areas within HiFi and are producers of DAC's and Phonostages.

This friend now uses the same DD TT and Tonearm as my own, mounted in a different plinth material and supported on a Wall Shelf . They are very much of the view the TT has seriously improved on their old TT and has shown a jump in SQ over their digital creations for CD replays. This friend has now most recently produced a Densified Wood Plinth, and is making reports since its introduction, that it has been a major breakthrough in an improvement, the impact of it has also encouraged them to produce a Sub Plinth Structure using the same materials.

The questions not answered is that, when it comes to identifying what part of the Vinyl LP Source and ancillaries are the main item responsible for the noticeable differences in the comparisons.

The SPL and Bass Note differences can be attributed to the recording ?

The fact that the perception using one Drive System with differing Tonearms and  Cart's,  but ending up with very acceptable similarities is looking to be more down to the ancillaries used with the LP and CD. 

The additional experience where a Different Drive TT > Tonearm > Cart', produced the perception between two individuals in two different environments and mounting methods, that a very noticeable improvement was on offer from the Vinyl Source. In my view, suggests the very noticeable differences are due to the ancillaries used for the LP replay and have the capability of showing the CD Source in use is able to be perceived as a lesser recording medium or lesser quality source during the comparison.

During a allocation of time for a Comparison, I always after the A/B comparisons allow a source to play on for a extended period. It does not take long to relax into the replay and thoroughly enjoy it from any of the sources, the desire to change to the alternative replay option is not present or hankered for.

This is also the peasant surprise I got recently from the Linn Streamer used for a comparison session, I requested the Linn was allowed to replay a few tracks for their entirety, and within one track, I was settled and enjoying the replay to the point I made it known I could comfortably accept the idea of having the method set up in my system. 

With the enjoyment factor present during the use of both the Vinyl LP Source and CD Source when used in my system, and the outcome being both are being equal in my evaluations, I see no need for myself to judge one as better than the other.

If I was needing to make a subjective evaluation based on my experiences, at present within my system, there is a method for using the Vinyl LP as a source that stands out as improved over the CD Source that is in use.                

Dear @holmz  : No, it's not contrary what is happening is that you and me are at different step in the ladder way to enjoy MUSIC.

Your different threads/posts tells that with analog you are trying to go out of the " baby carry " when I'm already out of it years ago and now seated just enjoying MUSIC and posting in forums trying to help gentlemans that ask for. That's all. Nothing is contrary, you are in the fun learning ladder steps: good.

 

R.

 

 

Dear @mijostyn  : "  There are times when vinyl wins. " Rigth.

I don't know you but as time goes on I'm a little reluctant to use my time with all the protocolo need it to listen LPs against that " monkey " sliding the CD with out worring of nothin: just MUSIC and full great peace and happiness in mind.

R.