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Better Cartridge/Turntable advice for old-school Hip Hop music

Hi Audiogon forums,

I’m Kevin and even though I have been a long-time reader, this is my first post and you guys would probably squinty your eyes looking at the title. 

I recently upgrade my turntable and was quite disappointed with the way the new system sounds, and how inexperienced I am in choosing a table/cartridge combo that does not suit my music genre, so I really look forward for your input to help me improve my system. Here is my system profile:

  • - Vintage Thorens TD125 Long-Base with 12-inch Jelco 850L arm & Audio Technica VM760SLC MM Cart – Table has been fully serviced by Dave @VinylNirvana so it is working correctly. 
  • - Joseph Bookshelf Speaker RM7XL
  • - Rogue Audio Magnum 1st generation
  • - EAR 834 P Phono preamplifier
  • - REL Sentor II Sub-woofer 
  • - Speaker/IC/ power cable are in either Cardas Golden Preference or Cardas Clear

TLDR My problem: after upgrading my modern Audio Technica LP7 (with stock cartridge) to the newer Thorens with ~10x more expensive cartridge, my Hiphop records sound less amusing. 

More specific on the problem: 

After paying almost $4k on upgrading the table, ALL my Hiphop records sound MUCH slower in speed, rapping vocal became less powerful, which I know for the genre, speed and power would be the 1st priority, hence in general the music became less intriguing. 

What has been improved is that general tonality, soundstage, are all became greater in terms of space, definition and clarity, instruments became much more musical and natural sounding. 

The new Thorens TD125 triumphed the old AT LP7 for all other genres: rock (Beatles, Pink Floyd, David Bowie, Stones, RadioHead, etc.), soul (Isaac Hayes), jazz, funk, blues, etc… are all sounds so good for me at the moment. 

I’m truly satisfied when putting on these other genres but unfortunately, 70% of the time I would be listening to HipHop records (A Tribe Called Quest, Beastie Boys, De La Soul, Dr. Dre, Public Enemy, Gang Starr, Outkast, UGK, Wu Tang, Nas, Kanye West, you name it). P/s: I’m really into psychedelic, complex layering Hiphop records.

So, what should I do now? Where does the problem come from? I don’t know if a vintage table could not do well with more modern Hiphop music, or it’s solely because of my bad cartridge choice?

I still currently keep the AT LP7 to listen to Hip Hop, but I prefer to only keep 1 table due to space constrain. I still have a spare fund of around $1k to upgrade a better cartridge, but it MUST be able to rock my Hiphop beats better than the stock cartridge on the AT LP7.

Could you guy kindly advise me some solutions for my problem?

Thank you very much and take care!

Kevin



hoangkhoi1207
hoangkhoi1207 OP
9 posts
 

Hi guys,

This is an update for this old thread as I have found the weak link in my system. Thank you guy for all the inputs but eventually i could not have much time to figure what caused the problem in my system. 

TLDR above: my systems sounds great on many genre, except for hiphop it lack the speed & lively feel. 

@chakster you were definitely right but I have no one around to borrow another phono stage until now!


Accidentally a few days ago my friend needs help on ripping a vinyl so I switched out my tube phono preamp - the Yoshino EAR 834 - replacing with his phono REGA Fono A2D (very simple, cheaper phono). And guess what, WOW! The music comes to live: I played some hiphop records and BOOM, the bass kicked in more powerful, the speed was faster and paired well with the rapping, no more laid back, no more "too chill" kind of mood. I lived with the REGA for the past week. 

I also recently bought a pair of monoblocks - the Bel Canto REF1000M Mk. 2 - I put them into the systems, and again, the speed of the music was slowed down, and the fast pace is not there any more, however, it drives me crazy as the new sound stage from the monoblocks are just so huge and clear, detailed are picked up nicely on every LP i put on, regardless of genre. The monoblocks drives my speakers so effortlessly that I don't even need to crank up the volume yet still having the feeling of beautiful music surround me. Yet again, it does not provide the speed and pace for hiphop - the genre I listen to at least half of the time. 

I read up an old review on positive feedback on the mk.1 of these monoblocks and the reviewer have the same view: "I'd say the Rogues (amps) do it in a slightly more aggressive manner, while the Bel Cantos are more laid back" and "Ain't Built For Speed". Damn it!

So my new quest: what could I do to improve my situation? I have a new pair of Joseph Audio Pearl coming in hence the new purchase of the (2nd hand) Bel Canto monoblocks. Should I upgrade my phono preamp (I'm current took my friend's REGA mentioned above and compared to the rest of the systems the REGA phono is the quite lower end)? Or should I sell the Bel Canto and look for another pair of monoblocks? My budget is around $4k and I prefer buying used equipment, since audio dealers here in Singapore does not let you bring home and demo the electronics they are selling, so no point buying new from them. 

Thanks a lot guys for reading my long post!
Kevin

audphile1's avatar
audphile1
5,443 posts
 
Have you tried the AT stock cartridge on the Thorens?
audphile1's avatar
audphile1
5,443 posts
 

Another suggestion if you’re selling the bel cantos to try Hegel or Pass Labs amp. 
You can go the integrated route as well. Also worth trying one of the Sutherland phono stages, as well as Chord Huei and McIntosh MP100. 

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