objective vs. subjective rabbit hole


There are many on this site who advocate, reasonably enough, for pleasing one’s own taste, while there are others who emphasize various aspects of judgment that aspire to be "objective." This dialectic plays out in many ways, but perhaps the most obvious is the difference between appeals to subjective preference, which usually stress the importance of listening, vs. those who insist on measurements, by means of which a supposedly "objective" standard could, at least in principle, serve as arbiter between subjective opinions.

It seems to me, after several years of lurking on and contributing to this forum, that this is an essential crux. Do you fall on the side of the inviolability of subjective preference, or do you insist on objective facts in making your audio choices? Or is there some middle ground here that I’m failing to see?

Let me explain why this seems to me a crux here. Subjective preferences are, finally, incontestable. If I prefer blue, and you prefer green, no one can say either of us is "right." This attitude is generous, humane, democratic—and pointless in the context of the evaluation of purchase alternatives. I can’t have a pain in your tooth, and I can’t hear music the way you do (nor, probably, do I share your taste). Since this forum exists, I presume, as a source of advice from knowledgable and experienced "audiophiles" that less "sophisticated" participants can supposedly benefit from, there must be some kind of "objective" (or at least intersubjective) standard to which informed opinions aspire. But what could possibly serve better as such an "objective standard" than measurements—which, and for good reasons, are widely derided as beside the point by the majority of contributors to this forum?

To put the question succinctly: How can you hope to persuade me of any particular claim to audiophilic excellence without appealing to some "objective" criteria that, because they claim to be "objective," are more than just a subjective preference? What, in short, is the point of reading all these posts if not to come to some sort of conclusion about how to improve one’s system?

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To the point of specs, F-1 engine 1.6 ltr. displacement engine produces between 600-1,000 hp.  Cannot find anything even near that kind of hp with 1.6 ltr. engine from any manufacturer.  All about proper design and engineering.  Very expensive design and engineering which throws the specs out the window.

@hilde45 ,

I think that video needs to be paraphrased.

To me, here is how this subjective vs. objective boils down:

 

  1. There are objective audiophiles that believe that perfect fidelity, electrical and otherwise and adherence to a doctrinaire as the artist intended method, as the only true path. They are wrong. Why? Because all music is manufactured and the final result is determined by a fallible human.
  2. There are subjective audiophiles who believe there are as yet undiscovered physical properties of wires, electronics, and anything else they can come up that explain changes they perceive they hear. They are wrong. Why? Because while we don’t know everything about the physical world, our understanding of how thing work but even more, how things behave is extreme. Do you think we would be able to build nanometer scale semiconductors, nanometer scale battery materials, antennas at 10’s of GHz, etc. that behave just as our model predict if we didn’t?

 

One group says I trust the science without realizing that there is no science that guarantees the accuracy of the underlying fundamental product, the music. The other group says I trust my ears without understanding but more importantly accepting the basic limitations of us humans. If neither group is willing to accept the fundamental flaws in their approach and learn from the other, then neither will move forward.