Narrod, sure, But thought I'd pass on a 'best kept secret". No harm done , right? Or should I demo competition so I can find out I;'m wrong, that the cayin is less than my opinion??? Not sure why my experience counts for so little around here. How many here have resources to demo a cayin 17, w/o buying first? Just passing on what i know based on 30 yrs in this hobby. I know more than how my posts appear. If I say the Cayin is built like a tank, trust me, its the truth.