Honest Experience on Effects of Subwoofer Please


I have read countless of threads on people’s experiences with subwoofers but am still confused. Although I don’t have any experience with high quality music subwoofers, I have been using a decent sub in my audio system for the past 18 years or so. The sub went in and out of the systems and various rooms throughout the years as I was not convinced if the sub was contributing anything to the system. At times I felt I could hear an improvement and at other times I thought the sub wasn’t doing anything. If I bump up the volume and crossover frequency on the sub to hear a larger impact, it’s overly done.

I am aware that a proper set up and/or quality of subwoofer is crucial to ensure a successful implementation of the sub(s) in a system. Let’s just assume that everything is done properly.

To cut to the chase, do people hear a small or appreciable difference with subwoofers, or it’s a big night and day difference? I know everyone’s expectations are different but I’m reading different opinions and experiences on this forum. For the first time in 15 years, I am considering a sub upgrade and have been in communication with the sub maker and dealer. I just wanted to get a clearer picture on the situation.

So, coming back to the question, just two questions;

1. Do people hear a small or appreciable difference with subwoofers, or it’s a big night and day difference?

2 Do subwoofers just fill up the missing deep bass below say 40Hz or 35Hz where the main speakers won’t reproduce, or they will also augment the mid bass and upper bass by producing a punchier sound with better kick, heft and dynamics? The drums or kick drums are usually in the region of the midbass and upper bass, not low bass.

Posts like the one below taken from another thread make me confused.

 

ryder

I have a small room, with a line array of Rel s-510’s.  The overall improvement is off the charts:  soundstage, mids, hi’s are all much improved, not to mention of course, the low end.  I started with one, then a second, then two more, and finally, a third pair.  The improvement at each step was immediately noticeable, and not incremental.  Individual instruments have more weight and solidity and the music has a live concert-like low end foundation.  My two cents!

One of the best features of the Rythmik Audio line of subs is the phase control included in their plate amps. It is not a phase "switch" (either zero degrees or 180 degrees), but a continuously-variable phase/delay control knob, adjustable from zero degrees/zero delay to 180 degrees/16ms delay, and anywhere in between.

First find a reasonably good sub location with relatively low mode problems (both nulls or peaks), then use the Rythmik phase control to maximize the phase relationship between sub(s) and loudspeakers. Everyone talks about the long wavelengths of bass tones making phase relationships below, say, 100Hz, mute is ignoring the fact that if the outputs of sub and loudspeaker don’t create a combined flat response at the cross-over frequency (if they are not in phase), there will be a hole in the frequency response created. Loudspeaker designers have to do the exact same thing in the blending of tweeters with midrange/woofer drivers.

"Subs are easy for me to set up (sorry mijostyn) as they’re a relatively simple thing. You turn ’em on and listen...mine have phase switches that need to be heeded and some may find that daunting but really...you simply listen. "

I agree with wolfgarcia. Turn em on and listen. Hopefully any sub you purchase today will have an app to allow you to change all sorts of parameter from your listening position, from volume to phase to cutoff frequencies, etc. In the old days you had to get up and change at the sub.  A remote app is a game changer with respect to setting up a sub.  

["ryder: The only thing I don’t like about the REL is the price, particularly the current price increase of the S-series without any changes to the models."]

A friend dropped by with his new $9K Studio III REL to compare. He returned it that afternoon and later purchased two processing subs with a few hundred left over. The real wood finish on that REL was stunning, no chrome bits though. 

REL headquartered in Berkeley CA. My State will get an almost 10% cut, sweet! Enjoy.

@wolf_garcia --

A lot of silliness get passed around with topics like this one, and all bloviating aside, subs aren't that difficult to set up, more than one helps tame standing waves but one sounds much better than none, and don't be afraid to try 'em. I have a few older RELs (no high pass nonsense needed) bought used and they're great. 

...

.. I have decades of experience in studios and live concerts as a musician and live sound mixer, and am baffled by how baffled some are with this stuff, and the noted complexity some need to yammer about doesn't help anybody.

On the second paragraph: you may have given yourself the answer without realizing it; not everybody has "decades of experience in studios and live concerts as a musician and live sound mixer," which otherwise would've likely given them a head start implementing subs in the home setup. 

Re: first paragraph: it's not really about "complexity," but rather what you choose to go with and how you intend to do it. Being very experienced yourself with sound mixing both in studios and at a live concert milieu while having a bunch of REL's (whether they're used or new is besides the point, btw) to play around with, isn't a bad outset by any means. REL's would seem easier to implement in an existing setup compared to other sub brands, and combined with your experience in the field you're dealt a good hand here. I'd say that's not necessarily representative of most who're about to go the sub(s) route?

I wouldn't discourage anyone from throwing themselves into sub(s) usage, but I would like to tell them of a way to implement subs that deviates from small, inefficient cubes augmenting main speakers run fall range. High-passing the main speakers isn't "nonsense" but can have obvious advantages, and going with big, higher eff. subs in more numbers than one lends further, potential advantages to boot. Where it might get more complex is going active, but who says everything comes with the snap of your fingers?

Going even further with DSP's and perhaps bass management (as outlined by poster @mijostyn above) can add to integrational bliss, and so while very good results can be had without bending backwards per the more typical or popular way to integrate subs, it is to some a mere starting point going way back in their subs voyage. 

It's like hitting someone on the head for going other ways, god forbid with the intention to raise the bar perhaps even further. It's not bloviating or arrogance, but simply sharing experience others might appreciate exploring for themselves. Make of it what you will.