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Is There A Big Difference Between Subwoofers From Different Manufacturers

This is likely the last thread I’ll be posting about subwoofers.

I was just wondering if there is really a big difference between subwoofers from different manufacturers if the quality of the subs (which is mostly governed by the specifications) are fairly similar. Also, with the assumption that the set up is properly done to ensure a seamless integration with the main speakers.

There have been many comparisons or experiences on subwoofers shared by members here on this forum, people who upgraded their old sub to a new seemingly superior sub. Or people who added additional subs to the system which contributed to an overall improved bass performance. I’m referring to the former, the comparison between single subs.

To cut to the chase, I understand high quality subwoofers which are essentially higher spec designs will usually produce better performance than lower spec subs. When people upgrade their subs, I assume the new subs are superior in terms of specification, either a larger sub with larger drivers, higher power output of the internal amplifier, lower frequency extension or the combination of any of the above.

Has anyone compared subs which are fairly similar in quality or performance when upgrading from the old sub?

Example. If someone upgraded from a REL T7x to an SVS SB-3000 or SB-4000, I suppose the SVS would be an upgrade since they come with larger drivers, higher power output, everything superior spec-wise. What if the models are closely spec’d? Will the subs sound fairly similar or closer to each other ?

Say, the comparison between

SVS SB-3000/4000
Rythmik F12SE / F15
REL S510 / S812 / Carbon Special or Limited

I presume the subs will still sound slightly different but the difference may not be night and day if the quality or specifications are closely matched?

 

ryder
ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 

@akg_ca Spot on

It’s simple to add a first order passive HP to roll the lows out of the mains. The -3dB point should be slightly above the mains’ anechoic -3dB. Doing so effectively doubles the power available for the rest of the spectrum. Polystyrenes, while hard to find today, are preferred.

That being said, most subs today are missing some of the necessary controls

  1. Multiple LP slopes
  2. Multiple XO ’flavors’: LR, BE, BU...
  3. Continuous phase control
  4. Polarity inversion
  5. Delay
  6. Sufficient mass to prevent ’strolling’ on non-rigid floors above crawl spaces or on second+ stories

The Martin Logan X series has some of the above. The rest can added, if necessary, with external DSP. A failing of the ML series, other than Chinese origin, is insufficient mass. 10kg weights, while not particularly Audio Salon, are effective:

 

drugolf
29 posts
 

Today if one isn't managing their subs with DSP control then I'd say you aren't getting the most out of it.  A well regarded pair of subs, properly integrated with DSP and dialing in the positioning will be a high percentage of having "good subs".

wsrrsw's avatar
wsrrsw
997 posts
 

Excellent thread.

Unledd I missed it the room is as important as the sub. The room (acoustics) are covalent to sub/speaker sound.

Also subs are like spice; some like a lot and some like just a tad.

soix
9,456 posts
 

Unledd I missed it the room is as important as the sub. The room (acoustics) are covalent to sub/speaker sound.

The room becomes less of a factor the more subs you add.  With a swarm (4 subs) the room becomes almost a non issue. 

mitch2
3,961 posts
 

@ieales

It’s simple to add a first order passive HP to roll the lows out of the mains.

Are you speaking about a line-level HP filter like the Vandersteen M7-HP High-Pass Filter? If that is so easy or simple, then why does the M7-HP appear to consist of multiple components assembled on a circuit board at a price of $3,300/pair?

I am not challenging your comment but rather trying to understand. The quality of a line-level HP filter is so important because the entire signal going to the main speakers passes through it. I doubt the HP filters provided in most subs are of a sufficient quality to handle that task without affecting the sound of the main signal in some way. The M7-HP filter (i.e., balanced line-level) is exactly what I need except I would want the pass frequency at 50Hz instead of 100Hz, and I would like to pay less than $3,300.

Based on the sonic benefit of relieving the main amplifier of reproducing the lowest level signals when subs are used, I am surprised there are not more aftermarket products like the Vandersteen filters or more information about how to construct a high pass filter using high quality parts.  At least one manufacturer includes a HP filter input in their amplifiers - the Aesthetix Atlas, but I know nothing about the quality of that filter.  Do you know of any websites where I might learn more about constructing a line-level filter like the M7-HP?

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