12' x 14' room; $10k budget for speakers; help

Hi. Noticed your post, as I have a similar sized room, open on one side - and potentially would consider speakers in your budget. I found a trip to a local AV show interesting - the hotel rooms were mostly of a similar scale, some a fraction larger.

For large speakers which were surprisingly forgiving of a modest sized environment:

The Von Schweikert VR35s were promising - unique design. Certainly a very large sound stage and a non-fatiguing tone. Reading up, seems their placement is finicky, and bass varies dramatically with the room. Still their policy of in-home trials is tempting. At the show the sound had width and height, but depth was a little lacking - nonetheless, better than many more expensive set-ups at the show. The room was odd...something like 10' across, 16' deep, with speakers on the long wall 9' apart.

Dynaudio Confidence series - Bryston electronics used C4 MkIIs to showcase their wares, in a room smaller than yours! Possibly the best sound at the show. Bass control was extraordinary. Very articulate, but sweet sound. Not sure how Brian Russell managed this trick, but it was very impressive. Second hand or superseded C2s or C4s, or new C1s would be in budget.

Left field option - Analysis Audio planar ribbons - around 10K - made in Greece! Meet all your criteria, and possibly the best "three-dimensionality" of the show.

Other speakers I've heard which I suppose are obvious contenders, with shorthand comments - latest B&W 803 Diamonds - Very smooth, but not overly dynamic - nice with orchestral, string quartets; Wilson - second hand Sophias - I don't like the tweeter in these, but maybe that's just me - I owned CUBs, & they work well placed to the corners of a room, but sound hard, more so than the Sophias; Sonus Faber Guarneris (Homages & Mementos) - in some ways similar to the B&Ws - not too much snap and drive, & benefit from a sub - very sweet with acoustic music, chamber especially - can handle an orchestras well, although sound stage not overly large (like your up the rear of the concert hall) - massed strings might sound distant, but never grating.

Finally a plug for my current speakers - Usher Be718s with the US spec crossover and the original beryllium tweeters, Usher stands, and a REL sub. I can't really justify changing these for another monitor - when buying also considered Guarneri Mementos and Wilson Duettes. As a professional review said, the Ushers sound remarkably like the Dynaudio C1s for a fraction of the cost...especially second hand in the USA. Just don't get the diamond tweeter - it's a step backwards. A sub is nice, and the stands are essential = the speakers bolt on.

Might also comment on some of the other suggestions - I think I'm overly sensitive to grain & congestion in the higher frequencies, but to my ears Martin Logans and Magnepans are fatiguing, surprisingly so, in the treble - also I can't imagine a small room would be optimal - again, poor results at the AV show for the Magnepans; the MLs I've heard in large rooms, but just did not convince. Audio Note's have their devoted following, but not for me - even with their own high end electronics I find the sound a bit thin and distant - I have heard them several times over the years, but the room at the AV show just confirmed my previous experiences.

Finally, another post mentioned room treatments - helped with our room, but require experimentation - absorber panels are cheap (when in their bare state). I relate to your gear, having had ARC amps and a CD1 player for a decade: having said that, for clarity the latest outboard DACs seem to be a great improvement - I put in a Wyred4Sound DAC2 and this is way better than the ARC inbuilt DAC - I imagine your Cary is better than the ARC, but still..."Come on Cecil, give me a dollar..."

All the best,
Rob.

Don't forget about power conditioner. I have inexpensive oneac 6.25 A. model, and it makes a difference already!

You can pick one up on ebay for less than $100.

Also, dedicated power outlet also helps your amp, as you probably know.

Maxh, it sounds like you are quite familiar with live music, and there are two areas in particular where most speaker systems fall short. Neither is obvious from published specs.

Dynamic contrast is one area where most speaker systems fall well short of live music (well so do most recordings, but that's another topic for another forum). The culprit is thermal compression. As the voice coil heats up (which can happen very quickly - imagine touching it with a 100 watt soldering iron), its resistance rises, and less power is delivered. Most drivers have less than 1 dB of thermal compression at less than 10% of their rated power, rising to 3-4 dB at their rated power. Now many if not most manufacturers' power handling claims are based on "music program" power handling, which is typically twice the actual AES rated power handling (and if they're based on "peak power handling", they're even more optimistic). So if you want negligible thermal compression on peaks (to preserve dyanmic contrast), you probably want the speakers to reach adequate peaks at about 5% of their claimed power handling (and unfortunately different manufacturers measure efficiency with different yardsticks too). Of course it helps to have plenty of reserve amplifier power, but that's only indirectly a speaker-related issue.

Another area where most speakers fall short is in getting the reverberant field right. Live music in a good venue generates a reverberant field that is spectrally correct (similar to the first-arrival sound), powerful, diffuse, relatively late-arriving, and which decays evenly across the spectrum. In a 12 by 14 by 10 foot room obviously we can't replicate the soundfield of a good live venue, but we can at least get some things right. Fairly directional speakers can be aimed to maximize the time delay between the first arrival sound and the arrival of the first reflections, and fairly constant-directivity speakers ensure that the reverberant energy will have the correct spectral balance (assuming the room isn't overly absorptive at some frequencies, which unfortunately may be the case with the room treatments you describe).

Of course these aren't the only things that matter, but imo they shouldn't be overlooked if your goal is to get a reasonable approximation of the live music experience.

Duke
dealer/manufacturer

For a small room, I would give the Thiel 3.7 a listen. Heard them once in a smallish room (at a dealer) and they blew me away.

Duke's post is well worth noting and his speakers are well worth considering.

BTW - I use his speakers and have used them in various sized rooms, one slightly bigger than yours.

I remember him coming by once and he was amazed at how I had his speakers set up. They were on the room diagonal (something you should consider for a small room) and my chair was positioned as such that I was no more than 4' from the speakers. From my listening position you had the sense that you could reach out and touch the speakers. You would think that this would be a recipe for sonic disaster but funny thing was after listening for some time neither of us found fault with the sound.