What are we objectivists missing?

This wasn't meant to be a troll post.  I am completely serious.

whipsaw:

Very familiar with Nelson Pass and his take on this (I have a Pass Labs amplifier  in my system and have read a bunch of his stuff).  Even though he uses extensive listening tests, he can still measure the relative amounts of harmonics relative to different designs.  So this is an example where you have a distinct difference in the perceived character of the sound but at the same time there is also a corresponding difference in the measurements.

So measurements alone may not predict which you may prefer, but there still exist a measured difference.  I'm just curious as to what you all think we might not be measuring that would account for perceived massive differences in components which on the surface appear to measure identically.

My take is that if you can hear a difference, there must be some difference.

In my case, yes, but in your case I have no idea, you could be fooling yourself. 😂

If a device or cable or whatever measures exactly the same it should sound exactly the same.

The problem I have with this argument is that it believes our existing, common measurements are all that could tell us anything about sound. I do not believe this to be true, at all. Most of the measurements audiophiles are familiar with were developed 30 years ago or more. Yes, we can measure them with more precision, but their definitions haven’t changed.

These measurements were made before high speed data collection was available and data retention and processing was a lot more expensive than it is today but unfortunately we have not really taken much of this into account in developing new measurements.

Let me give you a super simple example. Vibration control. AFAIK no one has a standardized measurement of the effects of sound on electronics but measurements and tests could be trivial.

Another kind of testing might be to measure the output at the speaker terminals with different speaker cable and compare the spectral and phase characteristics of the signal. Instead we have people spouting nonsense about theories of wave propagation through insulators that have absolutely no measurements behind them. Hell you should record it and put it in a youtube.

Before anyone asks me, I am not your lackey. I don’t get paid to do this kind of work, that’s for the magazines and gear makers to do. I’m just saying that overall the state of testing has stagnated 30 years ago and it’s a real shame.

@jjss49 

blah blah blah blah...  its a hobby... do what you want, believe what you want...

+1 post of the day!  
Nobody here is building a space shuttle. 

The way I see it is if two cables measure the same but sound different, then it seems like you are not measuring the right things.

And as usual, jjss49 hits the old nail right on the head.  

Totally agree with we do not know what or how to measure sound differences in certain cases. 

I remember when CD players first came out and most everyone said they'll all sound the same. Yet when I audition several, it was clear most sounded different and a few sounded much better then others. I was told BS - you can't tell the difference. But I could. The issue was, no one had the understanding of what to measure. When they finally did (Jitter, etc.) then those disbelievers changed their tune. Oh you can measure it? Then it must be real now and I can hear it too. 

My point, some of us can hear the difference between speaker wires, cables, fues, etc. some can't. I can tell the difference between zip cord and my Audience speaker wire. I cannot tell the different between power cables, but I have upgraded them from the thin, free, black ones. You can call me names for not hearing the difference and still buying them, but one day we'll be able to measure why they and other tweeks sound different and then all these na-sayers will jump on the bandwagon also. 

Oh, it can be measured? Then it must be real now, wasn't real before..."