Avantgarde UNO set-up tips needed


A local dealer let me try a pair of Avantgarde UNO speakers in my own system at home. I have an Accuphase system (A-45 amp, C-2410 pre and DP-600 sacd player). The dimension of my room are 4.7 x 3.6 x 2.4 meters, i.e. 15.4 x 11.8 x 7.9 feet (L x W x H) - just a bit larger than the minimum 16 square meters recommended by Avantgarde.

So far, I have obtained decent results with the speakers firing perpendicular on the long wall. The singers are dead center and most often I get a rather good 3D soundstage. The speakers are 3 meters, i.e. 10 feet, apart and 3.1 meters away from my listening chair. A scheme of the room layout can be seen here:

Room layout

However, very often the size of the instruments is much larger than in the real life. I also need to crack up a bit the UNOs to sound their best. Finally, I should mention that compare to my Focal Micro Utopia Be & REl Stentor 3 speaker set up, the sound of the UNOs, while faster and more detailed, is not always as well balanced.

The settings I currently use for the UNOs are:

SUB-S: 20 Hz
FREQ.: 9
RANGE: high
VOLUME: 5.5

I would like very much to keep the speakers as the prices is very very good. Consequently, any set-up tips to improve the performance of the UNOs will be greatly appreciated. (I still have a bit more than a week to decide whether or not I will keep the speakers.)

I thank you all in advance!
Paul
nvp
Hi Paul,

What fine speakers you have!! I scanned this thread and did not see mention of Jim Smith's wise advice on setting the crossover and woofer level. I apologize ahead of time if I missed such mention and am repeating something already mentioned.

I owned Duos for a number of years and agree with other posters that Jim Smith is the man for AG setup. Per Jim, and counterintuitive to expectations, the best way to get the woofer adjustments right is to make these adjustments while listening to the midrange while playing vocals, typically female vocals. I used this approach and it was effective. Using music with bass content in my experience results in incorrect settings leading to endless tweaking of the woofer.

The following provides some detail on this topic. Likely I found this in a previous thread on Audiogon. If you search on Duos or possibly Avantgarde (as I recall you'll find more info searching on Duos) there will be lots of discussions on this topic and on other aspects of AG setup. Have fun and enjoy your lovely speakers.

--From jim smith 10/2000. So often, when I've heard of a system where the subs (217, 225, whatever) just didn't integrate well with the midrange horns, here's what I found - the sub crossover point was set too low. I think the owner thought cutting the woofer out at a lower frequency would somehow make the system sound "faster." In fact, this left a bit of a hole in the response. In order to balance the levels now, the owner (or dealer, or exhibitor) would then raise the sub levels a bit. So we were left with a sub that obviously did not blend smoothly. The bass did make its own, somewhat unrelated sound.

A technique that I recommend is to position the speakers and the listening seat for the smoothest overall bass. Then, I find using female voice is a geat tool. If the voice sounds too chesty, the crossover may be a tad too high, but often it's that the bass is too high. Go too far the other way, and the voice is disembodied, lacking in "thereness."

Feel free to make very fine - almost imperceptible visually - level and/or crossover adjustments. The click stops are simply reference points - the controls are infinite. When you get female voices right, usually it'll mean you're through tweaking levels. Setting the bass level with bass information means you're forever feeling the urge to readjust the bass according to the sound of that source.

Finally, a final technique is listening to the sound of a wooden drumstick striking cymbals in a drum set. This is the finest bass level setting, after doing all I can with voice.

--Someone added:
I found 'Baltimore' on Lyle Lovett's Joshua Judges Ruth album to perfectly illustrate what you (jim smith) mean. Its a very close miked recording. Set the x-over one notch too low and you'll notice marked sibilance and edginess to his voice. In the correct position the sound is beautifully natural. Similarly, turning up the bass from too lean adds presence to the point Lovett is truly in the room but one step too far and his voice begins to lose presence and become chesty. The reason this particular track is so good is the distinct contrast between the right and wrong positions, rather like focussing Leica binoculars.

--I think Jim wrote this:
The BEST way to adjust the bass is listen to the midrange (unless you have a RTA analyzer and trust it). Put on one of your favorite vocalists or a recording of an instrument you are familiar with and adjust the bass till you get just the right amount of warmth. It might take a few hours or days to get it *right* but there should be a definite area of adjustment where the instument or voice sounds whole and cohesive with good recordings. Find that spot and it should all come together.
Good stuff there, Tubes 108! Makes sense too, since you are treating the sound of the woofer as part of the midrange, rather than a disconnected device. Paul will be rocking soon enough. The only thing he has to do is invite Jim to his house. Me, I'd come over too, since I love Amsterdam. :)

Tubes108, thanks for the very useful information. I am fully aware of what
you are saying. I use Norah Jones' "Cold cold hear" song (track 3 on the album
"Come away with me") when setting up speakers. First, I make a loop with my
CD player and play only the first measure of the double bass intro. While
having this loop going I move the speakers around the room looking for the
place where all notes sound equally loud. (I've moved the UNOs, my drum kit
and furniture, so the UNOS were firing agains each of the 4 walls.) After that, I
play the whole song and adjust further the crossover and level of the
subwoofer so I do not hear any sibilances in her voice. It is rather easy to
make Norah's voice thing and edgy. For the time being I am very happy with
the sound. I am sure I will tune further the crossover and sub level settings.
So, far I went only form click to click on the adjusting knobs. It is good to
know that I can go in smaller steps. I will report back as things progress.

Whart, I am rocking already! Yesterday morning I made the mistake to go into
my music room to listen a song or two before going to work, I ended up
taking the whole day off. :) Regarding Amsterdam, if any of you are heading
this way just pm me. I've be happy to have you for an audition.

Thanks again guys! I will keep you posted.
Paul
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Although I have watched this thread (since the first post) with interest, I have never heard from Nvp, which of course is perfectly fine.

Glad to hear that his system is coming around to him.

Best,

Jim Smith

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