Why do so many people have problems with bass?

@daledeee1 : Sadly, I have a full time job and little wiggle room for house calls!

I grew up listening to my dad’s records through a Sansui 5000A receiver and a pair of Dynaco A35’s sitting on Muppet brown inch-deep shag carpet and have been hooked on audio ever since.

Later in adulthood I attended architecture school where we had an entire class dedicated to architectural acoustic engineering for things like concert halls, recording studios, churches, auditoriums, and public spaces like restaurants. It was fantastic and I’m incredibly grateful for the science of sound I learned there. We designed diffusers using math (then built them!) and studied complex modeling software for things like early reflections and bass room modes, including the limitations of that software.

I use an Earthworks Audio omni directional measurement mic and Rew to measure my speakers and their performance in-room by hand.

It’s been a long journey to get here but I am quite pleased with the results!

@theaudioamp In my 2 channel system I don’t need subs to reinforce bass. But my multichannel system uses four subs, one each for FL, C, & FR, at listening height on mass loaded pedestals and a dedicated sub for the LFE channel. I certainly appreciate using multiple subs at a lower levels Vs only one to even out room modes. The single sub in the LFE channel is fine because it isn’t called upon to do anything musical but kick. It’s a big one by Rhythmik and it is quite capable, regardless. I thought about mentioning multiple subs in my earlier post but it was already a dissertation and it was late, so I left that out.

Regarding using software to model bass room modes, the accuracy of your model is only as good as the complexity of the data you can feed it. There is certainly software capable of accurate modeling. You have to create a CAD model of the room geometry accurate down to the stud placement, wall cavity depth, and all furniture with accurate dimensions, then assign material properties to each surface like "5/8" thick gypsum board", type of insulation in the cavity, bonded leather upholstery, etc. Then sure, it’ll work well.

Architects who specialize in acoustically sensitive work like concert hall redesign use software like this. The really good packages have expensive licensing fees and aren’t typically accessible to or affordable by the average consumer. But our university did spring for one in the educational setting. For example, we participated in a project to replace the seating in a venerable and beloved symphony hall on campus with the requirement that we could not change its acoustic signature. A very tall order. That custom software was capable of doing highly accurate plots of the total acoustic picture for any given listening position with high accuracy.

In my post, I just figured pro software with expensive licenses was outside the scope of the discussion here. I apologize if I implied it doesn’t exist. Simpler modelers will give you good approximations, but some in situ measurement, tuning and placement adjustment will be required once you are living with the built system’s deviation from that kind of model.

One example of a dedicated acoustic analysis firm using high end modeling today would be Karofu. (I just did a quick search) I don’t really dip into acoustic design professionally today, so I can’t identify what modeler they’re using.

A course with a unit or two on room acoustics but no practical experience. That would explain the over the top suggestion of needing an architecturally accurate model and professional level modelling software when the response is almost always dominated by simple room modes and placement with that simple knowledge, easily modelled with basic SW will get you far further than guessing. Microphones/SW will tell you how you are doing or present state.

In regards to your sub setup, unless you already have an exceptionally well treated room for bass, a FL, FR, C sub setup, whether floor, listening height, or otherwise makes no sense at all for cancelling room modes. If anything, it is going to make the bass much worse and really stimulate some modes. If you are going to go with the cost of 4 subs, I would be integrating LFE output with music bass management and optimizing overall placement. The subs don’t all have to match perfectly for room mode cancellation.

In fact your whole comment about your stereo system not needing subs to reinforce bass (only a small part of why you should use multiple subs) but your multichannel setup having multiple subs in less than optimal positions is strange..

I won’t say more but will leave to other readers to reach their own conclusions.

My recent personal experience starts with my room, which is 24 x 35 x 12ft peak. Due to the layout of the room I am forced to sit slightly forward of the middle= zero back wall reinforcement. My speakers are Emerald Physics Open Baffle 3.4s, which consists of one 12" concentric woofer with 1" polyester tweeter per speaker. I had 2 early model SVS cylinder subs with plate amps. The volume controls were too sensitive, coming on way too loud when barely cracked. In fairness, they were designed for home theater, not hi-end audio, so I sold them. I found a lot more lower mids and bass when I rewired my entire system with the chinese Nordost Odin 2 knockoff cables AND treated all connections with Mad Scientist Audio's Graphene Contact Enhancer.

hth

The people who obsess over bass in their audio systems suffer from their own self-inflicted problems: a) they typically listen to rock music and b) they listen to the gear, not the music. How do you realistically deliver an unrealistic musical experience? (This is not a criticism of any music genre; I listen to rock music.)

Rock music uses electronic instruments, and the recording process is a compilation of separately-recorded tracks that are mixed together with an overweight to bass frequencies. Listen to a recording of music played in real time on real instruments and delivered in a real room. You won’t experience any of the audio angst of the headbanger gear heads.

This should piss off the majority of forum members.

@mambacfa ,

Traditional rock is light on synthesizer. Orchestral instruments go deeper than any instruments in rock. Electronics music does have very low frequencies.