I'm planning to visit Hudson Valley Hifi in NY.
They carry Totem and a number of brands I'm interested in including Rogue, Simaudio and Luxman. Will report back...
How much power do I really need for Totem Tribe Tower? LFD NCSE II, Sugden ANV-50 or?
Over the years I’ve had a number of Totem monitors and floor standers, as well as many others including Vandersteen 3A, Avalon Radian HC and Joseph Audio Perspective. But I now prefer smaller speakers. And I’ve owned a range of electronics, most recently Rogue M-180 monos (breat but too big and too hot) and, for a short time, a Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 (flat and lifeless - on a number of different speakers; just meh).
Earlier this year I picked up a used pair of Tribe Towers (89dB into 4 ohms), which I really, really love. They’re always musical, never fatiguing and have fantastic imaging and amazing bass in a small package. With them I’m currently running a PS Audio Directream DAC directly into PS Audio M700 monos. My room is pretty large at ~18’x20’. I’m looking to upgrade from the M700s. Budget is $4k max, used.
Totems have a reputation for really coming to life with powerful, high quality electronics. Manufacturer suggests min 50 w/ch. The M700s are fantastic for the money, easily drive the Tribe Towers and are never fatiguing. My Dad’s got a PS Audio BHK 250 amp that he’s going to be selling (and is in budget), so I gave it a try back to back with the M700s. Wow, the BHK is phenomenal, on a whole different level in every respect, not surprisingly, and a nice match for the TTs. My only misgiving is it’s BIG and HEAVY.
Dad also has a smaller secondary system with an LFD LE IV integrated (only 60 w/ch) so I tried it back to back with the M700s. The LFD is more musical, images better and has a deeper soundstage. On the downside, bass isn’t quite as deep or well controlled and it was a bit too forward, for me a no go.
Think I’d like to keep it simple and stick with a solid state or hybrid amp or integrated, preferably <10 years old. The LFD NCSE II and Sugden ANV-50 are appealing and within budget used but I’m concerned they won’t have enough juice given the size of my room. Ditto for Luxman integrateds. Also thinking about a more powerful Rogue Medusa hybrid amp, an older BAT VK-3000se hybrid integrated, Coda Csib and others.
Thoughts?
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As a Totem user for over 10 years I have to chime in here. I have used Rainmakers, Forest, and Arros, still have the Rainmakers and Arros. For the majority of that time I have used them with high power solid state. First an original Bryston 4b, then a 4bsst2, and then a McIntosh mc302. I’m now running a Primaluna at 36 watts or whatever and enjoying them more than ever. I bought into the whole need lots of power thing for a long time and now wish I didn’t waste so much time doing so. I’m not saying the high power solid state is a bad match, just that it really domes down to preferences. If you like solid state then you’ll like it with Totem. Also, if you like tubes I’m guessing you will like them with Totem. I find tubes really enhance what I love most about Totems. That is their ability to image and also their smooth beautifully midrange. Bass is probably preferable with solid state for many but I actually prefer the bass I get form my tube amp still. When it comes to treble I think tubes clearly are a better solution. Totems can certainly be a bit hot up top. Vince at Totem loves solid state and I feel that’s been taken as some sort of law that Totems will always be better with high power solid state. Just like always in this hobby it’s all about preferences. I personally don’t get the solid state thing with Totem. First they have practically no bass so I don’t understand what ss has to really offer there. Sure it’s a smidge tighter, but I think you will have a hard time getting the little Totem drivers to sound loose with any quality amp. With my Harbeths I understand clearly why some would prefer ss, because there woofers can certainly sound a bit loose. I really think if you like lower wattage amps then that’s what you should use with your Totems. Try not to let all these insistent opinions about high power sway you. High current maybe, but high watts are for the birds, or Americans I guess really. Bigger is always better in American if you haven’t noticed. It doesn’t seem the rest of the audio world agrees with us too much though. I say get what you want and likely you can tune it with cables, tweaks, and tubes to sound absolutely lovely with your Totems. So much is made about synergy between components which is important but I think you have to look at it more holistically. You can take a great amp and speaker match and make it sound poor by using a source or cabling that doesn’t match well. You can also take an average speaker and amp pairing and make them sound great with the right source and other accessories. Buy what appeals to YOU, and you’ll love it! |
Also just to throw it out there I’d stay away from more neutral amps with Totem in general. When I switched from Bryston to McIntosh my enjoyment went up substantially. The catch with Totems from my experience is prominent upper mids and treble. I find smooth amps to really balance that much better than neautal amps do. |
I have Totems fed with an integrated tube amp… they sound simply wonderful. Your comments outline my journey over decades with high power amps that slowly led me to all tube power on my systems. For the first few decades in high end audio I searched out slam (to my mind somewhat artificial) with high power amps with a bit lean midrange and fast bursts of power in the bass… slam. But with good tube gear you get a so much better midrange and very articulate, nuanced, and detailed bass… that, I noticed it is way more natural, like real music. They trade off for me is a no brained. Wished I figured this out a couple decades earlier.
My systems went from something I liked listening to for 30 - 45 minutes to something I can’t drag myself away from after hours. |
@ghdprentice you nailed it. You have to find that synergy that breathes life into the musical reproduction. +1 |
- 9 posts total