Time to upgrade the pre-amp.


I am currently running and ARC SP-16l into an Art Audio PX-25 power amp which feeds a pair of Blumenhofer Genuin FS2s (94db). I listen to mostly vinyl atm, and I have an external phono stage (Icon PS1 mkii). I think at this point, the pre-amp is the weak link.

Although I am not wedded to buying another ARC preamp, I am leaning in that direction due to company reputation, longevity, accessibility of local dealers (Northern NJ) and resale value, though I am definitely looking for that full mid-range and "musicality" typically associated with all tube architectures.

I have an opportunity to buy an SP-11 for $4,000, and from what I am seeing, if I wait, I may be able to get an SP-10 in that same range. However, for ~$2,000 more, I could likely get a Ref 5SE, which would be the top of the budget, but has in addition to any sonic advantages, a remote and tube hour tracker.

My questions are: (1) is it worth holding out for the newer Ref series (~10 yrs old at this point) vs the SP10/11 which are 40 years old at this point; and (2) if it comes between the SP10 and SP11, What I have read here is that the SP10 is all tube, but while that unit’s phono stage is particularly strong, the rest of the line inputs are not up to the SP-11. If it turns out that they are close, I would likely choose the SP10 between those two.

Very interested in how folks think about this.

saulh

Seems to me you're a pretty experienced audiophile and already have a pretty solid sense of direction. You might just want to go with the options you're already considering.

I think you've got some good recommendations. And I'll add another, below. One thing I think you should consider is whether the equipment you buy is hard wired or employs the use of circuit boards. For myself I prefer point-to-point wiring and tend towards small, boutique or semi-boutique specialists. 

Consider that probably much of the advice you'll receive (including that which I am about to give you) will be heavily biased in favor of the equipment that the person giving you the advice owns. Let's not "call anybody out" for this, like there is an intention to deceive. I think it's reasonable to simply recognize it. In a way, it should provide some confidence that those who are chiming in here at least have some familiarity with the equipment they're talking about. Consider, though, that probably nobody has been able to compare all the options being discussed. And even if they had, their listening preferences might not be the same as yours. And, of course, the context of your system is what really matters.

Having said all that, I recommend a Supratek. If you do a search for "all time most popular threads" you'll find the "preamp deal of the century" thread, which is now approaching maturity, as it is almost 20 years old. One of the things that attracted me to Supratek was the fact that many who posted on that thread had previously owned many of the well-respected brands we are talking about and felt that Supratek was sonically an improvement over what they owned before.

But whatever you go with I expect you're in for a fun change.

First of all, I misread the SP-11 gain. looks like 29db if I am reading this right: https://www.arcdb.ws/model/SP11.

 

@markusthenaimnut thanks for the comment re "experienced audiophile" but I am afraid you are mistaken. Perhaps "old audiophile"... that said I am attracted to P2P vs printed boards. Instinctively I think the former is better. My Icon Audio phono stage also fits that them. With ARC, i must admit that I appreciate the polished presentation, the copious documentation and the ready resale market.  That said I will be taking a detailed look at Supratek. @verdantaudio, is the matching pre-amp for the PX-25 the Conductor Simply? I think I saw it had no remote and stopped looking, but I will take a deeper dive.

Conductor Simply 2 and it comes with a remote.  I don’t offer the non-remote version as no one really wants it.  Mine is literally in-transit from UK.  

With ARC, i must admit that I appreciate the polished presentation, the copious documentation and the ready resale market.

Yeah, but does it offer the sound qualities you’re looking for?  You already have an ARC pre and yet are searching for a fuller midrange and more musicality, so you’re going to replace your ARC with, uh, another ARC???  For these reasons I recommended VAC above and many others have also recommended preamps that will bring you in the direction you’re looking to go.  Or just keep doing the same thing and hope for a different result — know what that is?

 

Having just gone through the "preamp shuffle," Get an ARC REF6. They can be had on the used market of about $7K and it is a fabulous pre, IMHO, a significant step better than the new LS28SE, both of which I had in my system. In fact, I thought that the LS28SE was just barely better than going direct from my MSB DAC to my Pass Labs 250.8 amp. I also experimented with a VAC Renaissance Mk V, primarily because it had a built in phon stage, and the VAC was also good, and slightly better than going DAC direct, but not in the same league as the ARC REF6, again, in my system. Owners of the Allnic 7000 rave about those as well, and you can get one for around the price of the ARC REF6. I have no experience with that pre but talking to owners, and someone from The Music Room who had listened to one, that was on my short list, but resale on them is very slow if I ever wanted to sell AND there is no volume display. For me, I like a visual volume display too, so I am very pleased with my REF6 over everything else.  Note that I replaced the stock ARC PC which has a 20 amp termination, with a Shunyata Research Alpha NR V1 PC and the difference was so startling that I went all Shunyata!