Serious Question About Silver vs Copper Conductivity for Power

@cleeds "It looks like you're right. He keeps asking for "proof" that he's already provided and the math is so simple. He's using a cable that he says  is rated at 100 watts, which is .83 amps at 120VAC. Period. His load is apparently just under 1A."

You're taking this out of context. I don't know whether you're doing that on purpose or whether you haven't followed the whole thread.  *I* am not questioning whether or not 100 watts running at .83 amps is correct or wrong.  *I* am questioning whether or not it is a problem running that on Teflon insulated solid silver.

You're all so busy attacking me, that you can't see that you are all applying algorithms based on copper to silver.

So....I must apologize as I don't see where I need to feel any shame.

One of my nearly lifelong friends is a retired engineer at NASA and let me know that the electrons that pass through a cable, interconnects and power cables, pass along the outer surfaces of those cables, so if you'll spring for silver, no need to spring for solid silver vs. O2 free copper with a jacket of silver.

@holmz Yes I should have said conductivity, not speed. I am entirely prepared to accept your scientific explanation and I thank you for it.

But this element of the discussion relates to topping up large capacitor(s) in a power amp to replace power used by the unit in playing music. If you employ a decent gauge of wire (as manufacturers put in the box for you), there is no way enough juice is not going to get to the cap(s), and no way sending 107 per time unit is going to be better than sending 100. Indeed, the cap won’t absorb anywhere near all the power that can run through the wire and will in fact draw a lot less than that.

The concern is entirely unwarranted and obsessive

@clearthinker I was pedantic on using “conductivity” versus “speed”, mostly for others who might later read this… and agree with your post ^above^.
(I know you know it, so it was mostly for the future.)

 

Well, since no one has proven themselves to be true, by backing up their supposed "correct" statements with any form of facts, it is the assumption that one should just "take them at their word." Too bad that use of sarcasm and belittlement ruins ones credibility if one hasn’t proven themselves prior. I have no choice but to disregard answers that are marred by needless derision.

There are text books and equations that are in the field of physics and electronics and EE that have been mentioned. Would it help to mention the theories and laws? Or to provide links?

 

“I’m not sure why that isn’t more clear to you." <- Because no one posting is an actual Electrical Engineer and is unable to provide any source for their statements. These are all ASSUMPTIONS and GUESSES.

I am %90 sure there is at least one poster is a EE, and %100 sure that one has a degree in physics.
That not withstanding, most of the part with electrical codes is rooted in a high school shop electronics class or H.S. physics level of things like Ohm’s law.
People have linked the published conductivity numbers for various metals.

So these are engineering assessments, and not guesses and assumptions. The only assumptions are what the actual current needs/requirements are.

 

This is SOLID SILVER wire at 28awg. *NOT* multiple, hair-thin, strands twisted together to make 28awg. Yes, that is an important distinction.

Each 28 ga wire is a hair, so 20 of them together is like a thin ponytail.
https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

0.0126” is more like 2 to 12 human hairs.
https://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/BrianLey.shtml

 

Also, *EACH* *INDIVIDUAL* strand is insulated in Teflon. First of all, silver has an extremely high melting point (over 900F). So, regardless of my electrical load on a 15 amp plug at 120v that single silver 28awg wire isn’t going to melt; even if it is subjected to a constant 15 amp load at full 1800 watts.

I think it would likely melt. I made a hot wire cutter for styrofoam that runs somewhere around 5 amperes through a with about 0.032” in diameter, and the bastard gets red hot and smokes through the foam. The foam actually cools it from conduction, so it is a balancing act to keep the middle hot enough to plow through the foam, but the free ends cool enough to prevent the wire from splitting apart.

(It glows red hot.)

 

IN fact, the Teflon jacket has a heat rating of 500F (260C) Therefore, if we all here waxing "scientific" and "math" and "electrical engineering" I could run my speakers on just that one 28awg insulated wire and not start a fire or short anything out. If I am wrong, prove it (spoiler alert, you can’t.)

Prove it yourself.
You can use a FLIR camera and measure it, if you so choose to.

Maximum current for a 20 ga wire made up of 20 strands is 2.1 amperes. Link:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html

That is like 16W maximum on a 4 ohm speaker. People often use 11-16 gauge on speaker wires, but horns and older high efficiency speakers could manage 20ga. So it is on the hairy edge, but on a 8 or 16 ohm speaker should just work.

 

With that said, taking 20 of these silver cables means offloading heat and electric loads. In final, it means you all are incorrect in your assessments, until you can actually prove it. That means not just taking your word. That means going out and finding an algorithm that can determine correct awg needed for 100watts from a 120v US socket using silver wire encased in Teflon (and I wish you the best luck finding it.)

Ignoring the math on heat flow, like the work of Fourier, many would use the FLIR camera, or a thermocouple to measure it in-situ.

Or they would just ;ook at the aforementioned link: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html

 

This post, if you bothered to read the original post, is whether or not there is a performance change using a braided, insulated silver power cable versus an insulated and filtered copper cable. I had actually avoided stating what company was making the silver cable. Interesting that you, once again, wrongly assumed something.

 

The original post was about silver versus copper AS WELL AS about the filter that matches the standing wave… here is one part:

With that said, changing to a power cable that uses pure silver insulated in Teflon, will ensure that power is delivered potentially faster. Although, the silver power cable will NOT have a filter. Therefore the standing wave ratio will not be mitigated and the electrical signal will not be choked either.

 

It is mostly the “Faster” and “Speed” part that is a problem.

 

You’re taking this out of context. I don’t know whether you’re doing that on purpose or whether you haven’t followed the whole thread. *I* am not questioning whether or not 100 watts running at .83 amps is correct or wrong.

You should question ^that^, as it is the basis over overthink else.
Most electricians do not question it, they just assume that it can draw up to the 15 amps… or they use a clamp style ampere meter and measure it.

0.83A looks like 100W, but there are 2 speaker connected to a stereo amplifier, so you more like 1.6A, and with losses everywhere along the chain is only goes up.

A Class-D amp might be 80% efficient, but a Class-A or AB is less. At 50% efficient, then we double the 1.6A and get to 3.2 amperes… or more.

 

*I* am questioning whether or not it is a problem running that on Teflon insulated solid silver.

The answer here^ is. “0.83 amperes is < than the 2.1 amperes that the cable is rated for.”
But I would want a cable that is capable of inrush current, and can handle the maximum expected or measured current needs. That teflon is not going to help a whole lot, as the idea is not have the cable trying to get to 260 C on its own internally… That 260C is more like, “use this cable in the engine bay, where the temp can get to 100-200C, as a PVC cable will likely melt if the engine bay is too warm.” It is NOT, “Use teflon because I am wanting to run an undersized wire red-Hot”.

 

You’re all so busy attacking me, that you can’t see that you are all applying algorithms based on copper to silver.

So....I must apologize as I don’t see where I need to feel any shame.

I am not a psychologist, but I seem to recall that shame statistically varies by cultural. No one posted anything that seems to be overtly laden so as to induce shame, so it appears that you are piling the shame onto yourself.

Being emotional usually tends to impede one’s ability to absorb new and difficult information.

 

Run whatever cable you feel is good, and have a nice day.evening.

Follow this and you are done.

Electrons and Metals do not care what resistance they encounter.  You are not a power plant.  You won't be wasting that much energy. 

The Key feature is low inductance.  That is not the same as low resistance. 

You can make better cables at home than you can buy.

Alex Jones knows