Tube PHONO preamp interference - RFI, EMI, bad grounding?


Hello!

My tube phono is picking up interference most probably from the air. It's EAR yoshino 834p, using three 12AX7 tubes. It's sounds pretty amazing and I willing to try everything to keep it. 

Here is a sample of the sound - 

 

The rest of the setup is ARC LS16 mk1, Classe CA200, Chord Qutest, Technics SL1200 with Nagaoka MP200, Tannoys D700

I have tried many things already -

- grounding the phono to the preamp, grounding the phono to a socket, covering the phono with a pot, saucepan - no change

-plugging the phono preamp alone into an integrated (Bryston B60) and removing other stuff.

- the important part is I have taken the phono to two other places and it worked perfectly fine, even with the cheapes cables.

- I haven't had any problems with previous phono preamps which were all solid state. 

- if I unplug the turntable the signal fades to about 50%

- if I try different RCA cables, there's not much of a change even they are shielded (audioquest mackenzie, supra etc.)

- the signal also fades when I grab the cables. Also works if I grab or squeeze the output cables. 

- I have tried to wrap the cables into aluminum foil, I have noticed a difference but it's still unlistenable.

- I have tried pluging in a 5 meters long RCA output cable and walked with the phono preamp around the room. It's simply like carrying an antenna. Placing the phono on the floor helps but again, the interference is still present. 

 

Do you have any suggestions what else to try? Is there some kind of grounding that would prevent the phono preamp acting like an antenna? 

I haven't tried a new set of tubes yet. 

I think the 12AX7 are simply too sensitive to all the mess in the air. The ARC LS16 preamp was catching the same signal very quietly when I took it's cover of. 

Thanks!

Filip

128x128filipm

Indeed, if the 33 ohm resistor was in series between the IEC and the ground lug, on the one hand, and the PCB ground, leaving everything but the PCB containing the audio circuit at earth ground, that would be OK. But I still don't think we've hit upon the primary cause of the noise that the OP recorded and included in his initial post. (I realize Dover said all this before me.)

@lewm This has to be corrected though. As I pointed out earlier, if the chassis isn't directly grounded it will act as an antenna rather than a shield.

Back in the 70's and 80's in South Dakota where TV stations were rare, farmers used to park an old tractor on a hill near their house and then point their TV antenna at that rather than in the direction of the TV station. They were using the tractor to collect RF energy which is then re-radiated.

We don't yet know if this sound is air borne, but if it is it will be important for the chassis to be grounded. Its also important for electrical shock hazard safety.

@lewm 

Indeed, if the 33 ohm resistor was in series between the IEC and the ground lug, on the one hand, and the PCB ground, 

 

Wrong.

With the EAR the ground lug is connected to the chassis.

The 33 ohm resistor must go directly to the board. - not the ground lug.

The ground lug/chassis should be connected directly to the ground pin with NO 33 ohm resistor in the path.

There is 230 volts floating around - you should be more careful if you are going to give advice on this forum.

 

Would you suggest trying to move resistor between the audio and the ground plug? While chassis > IEC would be connected directly.

I’ll have to buy a new one. Will this work? - MBB02070C3329FCT00 (serial number of the resistor) - It was a Vishay dale, 33.2 ohm.

The resistor says "33R2F RN60P 9322J DALE"

I think the noise is air borne. Everything I have tried suggests it is, and yes, the chassis definitely acts as an antenna.

It simply cannot be in the AC because we have powered the EAR with a battery. The noise stayed the same.

Thank you

 

Or I could leave the resistor where it is and try to ground it through the ground plug on the chassis. What would be the most effective way to do it? Connecting a ground wire to a line stage chassis doesn’t work at all.

If the proper grounding won’t help I’ll sell the unit. It worked everywhere else. I’d be looking for an ARC PH5 which should be better anyways.

 

@filipm

Would you suggest trying to move resistor between the audio and the ground plug? While chassis > IEC would be connected directly.

Yes I was going to suggest that. Run a wire from IEC earth to ground post, and then 33 ohm resistor from ground post to board.

Then just measure resistance between chassis and IEC earth pin - hopefully should read 0.

If it still measures 33 ohms between chassis and IEC earth pin that would mean that the chassis is connected to the board somewhere else other than the ground post.

Glad you are still with us - its worth getting the grounding sorted.

Good luck.