Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy

Just really surprised this thread is still going.  Have fun storming the castle and stuff. 😂

@prof

It was closed because Amir prefers his site to be about audio gear discussions rather than skirmishes over different web sites. He’d prefer that the emphasis NOT be on attacking other web sites, including audiogon. Funny you are trying to spin that as close minded or dogmatic, while people here continue to attack ASR.

I hope you don’t take offence, but I’m a bit less sanguine about that. ASR’s founder closed their corresponding thread a short time after my last reply to him, and more specifically after @laoman posted Darko’s letters page including his exchange with Amir. My experience is that he often closes threads when he realises his views won’t be the primary focus or won’t prevail.

In the thread on that exchange at ASR, I suggested to Amir that going for the jugular against Darko’s previous guest (Cameron aka GoldenSound, with whom Amir has previously engaged, demonised and banned on ASR) was tactless and made him look like a bit of a nutter (I think Darko likely concluded that an hour or so conversing with Amir would be less than edifying and demurred). Amir said he considered a more tactful offer too much of a compromise. Darko asked if being right was really worth the aggro. And so on. I doubt Amir wanted to re-visit that episode here.

He’s not shutting down discussions between "subjectivists" and "objectivists" on ASR: there are tons of threads on the subject, even stickied threads that are endless debates.

The sticky thread on measurements at ASR (for example) is a declared catch-all/resting place for posts (moved by moderators) that originally appear in reviews and an attempt to contain criticism/discussion of ASR methodology. Sensible to do that I think, but I wouldn’t interpret it as encouraging said discussion. It’s more the case that objectivist vs subjectivist debate would take constant vigilance to suppress, and that thread is an easier option.

But keep these comments in context, there's a fair bit of good info and discussion at ASR. It's a rough with the smooth thing for me.

@kota1 Thank you Kota1.  I appreciate your reading my elaborate responses.

Here's a Darko sponsored video that I have problems with (the video, not Darko)   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW3QHfH9Nho&t=1833s  

I posted these questions after viewing it: 

I don't know if Darko can answer some questions that I ponder as I watched this video. I note that the elaborate construction of the cable is evident.

However, it isn't manufactured in a clean room, the cable is exposed to the elements and everyone is touching the cable with their bare hands. I don't know if contaminants will affect the sound (probably not) but could effect its' longevity.

Are the copper elements really of lower quality (OFC only) or are they 6N (for the price it would appear higher quality wire would be used, unless the design eliminates the necessity of high end wire).

The other question is more personal, why does the engineer have maroon(?) colored finger nail polish. I know it's personal, but does he have a reason or is it a personal fashion statement? I am not casting aspersions, just curious as I don't see that often (especially the strong color).    

This is some strange company based on this video in my opinion.  Talk about no measurements!

I own Cardas ultra-silver phono cable in my modded SME IV arm since 1989.  The thinnest internal phono cable I've ever seen (and requires magnification and tiny forceps to solder the pins to).  Sounds great though.  

@rockrider 

I firmly believe our current state of knowledge cannot fully describe the sound quality that will result from a given system/room. 

You're not alone.

I don't think anyone has made such a claim.

As stated earlier, even Amir doesn't believe that measurements alone cannot predict better than 70% of how a loudspeaker will sound.

Perhaps we'd be better off trying to establish just what this remaining remaining unknown 30% might be?

Perhaps tone and texture fall into this category, as I'm not sure how they can be currently measured at present.

@rtorchia 

Given that the audio subjectivists are so skeptical of science, why do  they so readily believe wild and unsubstantiated claims concocted by manufacturers of all sorts of cables, power conditioners, power supplies, etc.?

Wishful thinking?

Overoptimism?

Double standards?

Or just plain desperation after years of chasing after that elusive 'perfect' sound?

Perhaps for audiophiles, enticing promises from manufacturers and designers are always easier to accommodate than challenging rebukes and warnings from well meaning third parties?

At just what point the individual loses control over his purchasing intentions and gives in to compulsion is no doubt a question of great interest to marketers worldwide.

A couple of posters who argued the ASR view did so respectfully and presented interesting and thoughtful views, for example @prof and axo, others not so much. What annoyed me and I suspect some others is Amir’s attitude. Fine, he has a viewpoint, however he hectors and attempts to shout down others of opposing views.

A few of us have been thrown off his site. You saw it here where his attitude was that he has come to teach us the right path. He has a highly inflated opinion of himself and brooks no opposition to his dogmatism. He belittles others, for example his comments about Goldenear in his exchange with Darko. He does not need to do this as it just makes him look like a prat. He mostly does the same when his testing methodology is called into question. He has clearly made mistakes in the past but usually refuses to acknowledge these.

In the meantime let’s follow the advice of Herve Deletraz, " Listen first, then measure."