Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy

@axo1989 

I can see your point of view regarding ASR. 

I don't know if you have been a member long enough to have seen some of my skirmishes with Amir and crew.   One got a bit crazy.  But for me it's always water-under-the-bridge.

@moto_man I suggest a good start would be to compare like with like, and at the most basic this would mean the same AWG. Same length, same connectors.

Anything else is meaningless because you may be comparing things that are not alike in their physical characteristics. 

If stock is 20 AWG, and the $$$ ones are say 12 or 14 AWG and are a few metres shorter, yes, you will hear a difference.  They will measure differently.

@crymeanaudioriver 

You do know that these measurements came about from observation first, the measurements didn't come before observation. The science will never further if the measurements stay in stagnation, the ear/brain is more complex than the standard measurements we use for audio.

@tantejuut

The problem I have is people telling me what I can not hear.

Again: do you have a problem with scientists who study human biology telling you what is or isn’t possible? The reason, for instance, scientists have sent up the Web telescope is to see things that they KNOW can not be seen from earth with the naked eye. Wouldn’t it be strange for someone to say "they don’t have to do that! They can’t tell ME what I can see or not!"

???

Therefore: Why are you not open to a suitable expert on a subject (in which you are not expert) explaining what you may, or may not, be able to hear? This stuff really has been studied! Just as the limits of human hearing in regards to frequency response has been studied, so have thresholds for distortion levels, dynamic range etc.

And that really does have consequences when we are talking about what type of distortions are likely in cables and how audible they are likely to be or not.

If I hear differences in cables, I want to learn what is happening. If other people tell me that it is impossible and I am delusional, I find that not the right attitude for investigating the parameters for what is causing that effect. (geometry, dielectrics, purity, etc...).

But then you really DON’T want to learn what is happening. That is:you are blocking off any answer you don’t like, especially one that would conclude you are wrong in what you thought you heard.

There are people who have good knowledge of electronics - what type of distortions are plausible or not, how to measure it, and also have good knowledge of the thresholds of audible distortion. Amir is one of them, but there are numerous others.

If you REALLY care about "learning what is going on" it may indeed entail that real audible differences are occurring in your cables. But it also MAY be the case no audible differences are occurring, for very well known technical reasons, and you REALLY MIGHT be mistaken in your perception. If you don’t allow for the latter possibility - one VERY well documented in science - then you really aren’t approaching this with an open mind keen to learn the truth.

@moto_man

As cryneanaudioriver pointed out: you really left science and engineering behind in your post because you have simply assumed (e.g. in the case of your Shunyata cable) that your perception is SO reliable that you just CAN’T be wrong, and that therefore if no technical theory or measurement can validate "What You Hear" then it MUST be tests that are wrong, not...ever....you!

THAT is the fundamental problem underlying most of the subjectivist/objectivist debate. The Utter Certainty many have in their own perception...which flies in the face of all we know and has been studied about the fallibility and liabilities of human bias and perception.

It seems either a case of flat out refusal to learn this due to maybe some ego-protection mechanism, because people wrongly feel they are being personally insulted if it’s dare suggested they are "hearing things." Or it’s a case of some people just not-knowing-what-they-don’t-know and so they just won’t accept any informed testimony that contradicts their self belief.

Which is too bad.

My son was involved in a large study for a peanut allergy treatment. It was double-blinded - neither we nor the researchers knew who was on the actual treatment or the placebo. This is STANDARD in such trials because of the well known influence of bias - people who know they are getting the treatment will often report it made them better (even if it didn’t) and visa versa. Wouldn’t it be strange for my son to have objected "How dare you insult me by suggesting I may be prone to imagining anything! I demand that you unblind this study. I can trust myself, why can’t you?"

That would just be a flat out misunderstanding of the nature of human bias, right?

And yet this is pretty much what one sees among many here: a flat rejection of the proposition they may actually be imagining differences, and a rejection of any way of coming to that conclusion. It’s a one way street: I KNOW I hear the difference, so the only answer I’m looking for is one that affirms that belief!

As I mentioned earlier:  I also felt very strongly I heard an "obvious" difference with a Shunyata cable in my system.  But I was open to the possibility of listener bias as well.  So I did a blind shoot out and when I didn't know which cable was which, there was NO detectable difference - my guesses were completely random.

Saved me a lot of money :-)

It's too bad more audiophiles haven't had such experiences.  It's an eye-opener.