Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy

@crymeanaudioriver

I agree with AXO1989’s comment.

How do you know they are that and not a reflection of a very nice or very poor aesthetic, or prior conditioning, or the ongoing fight with the spouse?

Generally I note whether a subjective reviewer is good at putting sound in to words - usefully! - and if I note his/her descriptions correlate very well with equipment I’ve owned or heard myself, then I gain some confidence that his observations can be useful. I also note reviewers who seem to care particularly about noting the things I care about, so I feel ’ok, this person listens like me, he’s listening for the same things, and he’s very good at detecting and describing them."

I have been led to quite a few wonderful products, parsing reviews in this way. I’ve also been amazed how perceptive and accurate some of their descriptions have been when they are describing speakers I’m familiar with.

In fact I was just reading an old review of the Devore O/93 speakers that I’ve auditioned numerous times and love, which also sound like the bigger O/96 that I like even more. I was bewitched by those speakers - they did something really special that stood out from all the other speakers I auditioned. And the reviewer nailed the way the Devores reproduced realistic organic timbre and density:

"A snare drum skin sounds exactly like a real snare drum skin. A cymbal crashes, splashes, sparkles, and has airborne sonic decay as if a drum kit is being played in front of me. A singer’s voice has chest resonance – not just throat vibration – which signals my brain to believe that vocal emanation is being projected by an organic, physical mass, just like a real singer standing in the room would sound."

Those words could have been taken right out of my head after my first audition of the Devore O-series speakers. The FIRST thing that hit me, as a fan of drums, was "man THAT sounds more like a real snare than I’ve heard anywhere!" Then I listened to one of my drum solo test tracks and was blown away by the sound of the cymbals. I’d rarely heard them that big, brassy, airy, splashy...so much like the real thing. The startling sensation of a "drum kit being played in front of me" stuck in my mind for weeks (having grown up with drums, played them, played in bands).  I was also struck by the way the Devores gave a sense of body and density to sounds missing in many other speakers...exactly as the reviewer pointed out.

So I can see this guy is caring about what I care about, listening for what I’m listening for, and his description (including most of the rest of the review) is bang on from what I took away from the Devore auditions.

The thing is, over on ASR the Devore speakers are just immediately dismissed because they immediately see "problems" with the design, that don’t fit the "harman kardon curve" school of design that is favored there. I would never, ever have been drawn to the Devores via that web site. It was subjective descriptions from other audiophiles and writers that kept hitting on certain themes about those speakers, which made me say ’these sound right up my alley.’

I could mention all sorts of subjective reviews that I found very accurate. (For instance Herb at Stereophile nailed the character differences comparing Harbeth and Joseph Audio speakers, both of which I have owned).

@prof Thank you for the lead. I forgot about this head to head speaker comparison. I heard the Joseph’s and the Harbeth 40.1s and Herb’s description is right on target. I prefer the Harbeth sound (possibly because I have over 10,000 opera/classical vocal LPs/CDs and 78s) for voice. Fortunately, my speakers are somewhere in the middle of these two with big, deep bass as well (six drivers/3 12" woofers each).  

Did you decide on the Devore O/96 because it was an amalgam of those two speakers that you previously owned? I only heard Devores (O/93 or O/96) under audio show conditions and while it was pleasant, it didn’t excite me (the room was very wide and I have no recollection of the other equipment). Your description makes me want to hear them again in a better setting.   All 3 speakers you own/owned are also moderately priced and as two ways, maintain excellent coherence and imaging. 

I have under 100 bongo jazz and pop LPs/CDs and 1000+ jazz recordings commonly featuring drums . As my equipment got better, I could also relate to hearing the skins and feeling the snap plus the shimmering of cymbals. Very exciting. I know what you’re feeling.

@crymeanaudioriver

I will put it in perspective so that some here can understand. There is an earth sciences site and astrophysics site. A flat earth believer goes to that site and claims the earth is flat. His evidence? His eyes clearly show it is flat. The members ask for more evidence. He provides none and keeps insisting his eyes don’t lie. They quickly turf him. Many of you who got turfed at ASR were flat earth followers visiting a science site. What did you expect?   This has nothing to do with free speech.

OK. I'll bite.

A member comes to ASR wanting to discuss how the Earth deviations from perfect spherical shape may affect a practical business project he is working on. Some background on this topic is below.

But, he is immediately attacked by some of the loud regulars, who are laughing at him for not knowing that Earth is a perfect sphere, and there is nothing further to discuss. Their chiding comments gather numerous likes. 

The member persists, providing references to peer-reviewed scientific papers, and explaining logical reasons why Earth can't possibly be a perfect sphere. The chiding comments are now turning into outright character assassination attempts.

The member is then compelled to protect his reputation. He reduces the discussion to a very simple statement, asking the loud regulars to comment on it. The loud regulars reply, demonstrating their lack of both knowledge and logical thinking.

One would think, OK, the member earned his right to be taken seriously. But no! No no no! The loud regulars report him to a moderator - I guess one of them, who earned his likes points mostly through chiding others. And here comes the ban.

Obviously, Amir sees that. He knows what's going on. Why doesn't he put an end to that? My best guess is that because Amir is an experienced Microsoft executive, who knows how to use others to take down those who could damage his standing.

Amir needs these loud regulars, so that they could take down those inconvenient members who are asking "wrong" questions and are bringing in "wrong" information.

Amir employs other stratagems of corporate politics as well: badmouthing other prominent audio gear reviewers behind their backs is one of those. I guess it must have worked well for him during his previous career.

On the surface, he is winning, getting his way in shaping ASR the way he wants it to be. In a broader sense, he is losing. Losing members, self-tarnishing his reputation, and making his enterprise non-monetizable. This saddens me.

One example of why ASR has become non-monetizable. Amir decided to test power amplifiers only on purely resistive load. While he is relatively careful with legalese, he did make purchasing recommendations based on such tests.

"Inconvenient" members repeatedly asked Amir why wouldn't he test power amplifiers on a more realistic load: either on a well-known widely available speaker, or on a professional-grade speaker simulator.

Correspondingly, some of the power amplifiers Amir recommended, per other "inconvenient" members reports, performed significantly worse with real-life speakers compared to the amplifiers he deemed "not engineered well".

I believe this resulted in commercial losses for producers of undeservedly downrated amplifiers. Also, to reputation losses, resulting losses in employment opportunities, and monetary losses, for designers of these amplifiers.

While Amir, if we are to believe him, doesn't make profit on his reviews, suing him would be complicated. He could just maintain that those were honest rookie mistakes of a hobbyist.

However, the moment he tries to seriously monetize ASR, for instance through selling it to another corporation, or via taking in non-trivial ads money, he would be open to lawsuits from likes of Yamaha and others, whose flagship amplifiers he alleged were designed incompetently.

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@fair +10  I knew about the centrifugal forces which create a "bulge" in the earth's center since the 1970s.  It is considered an oblate ellipsoid rather than a perfect sphere according to scientists.  Arguing against that is considered like stating the earth is flat.  The latter statement of the earth ASR members agree on.  The former statement of the earth, apparently they do not.  And are they nasty denying it without any facts I bet in their denunciation.  Hence, I will not rejoin ASR under a fake name as it doesn't matter after my rude introduction and banishment by Amir.  

May they keep their religion far away from us.  

@crymeanaudioriver Many of you who got turfed at ASR were flat earth followers visiting a science site. What did you expect?

Its all rather odd, perhaps confined to American culture, because I have not seen this level of self pity anywhere else..

Like if a bloke walks into the women’s shower room and is not only surprised when he is booted out, but then goes onto pontificate at the standards observed in their shower room and the poor quality of nakedness he observed.