What is the “World’s Best Cartridge”?

Dear @intactaudio : " When a system excels I find that the levels can get to the point where you don’t realize how loud it is until you try to have a conversation over the music. Since this is about cartridges, Lets assume we have two level matched cartridges with one showing slightly more tracing distortion than the other. Many people will find the one with more distortion sounds louder and more detailed while the lower distortion one sounds dark and closed in. "

 

I can’t be more in agreement that with your post where other gentlemans were in agreement by 2018 in these posts:

 

"" Unfortunately accentuated dynamics and resolution all too often mean a really nasty peak at the HF. ""

 

 

""" but be careful not to delude yourself.
Audiophiles .... tend to get seduced by what are essentially deviations from what the real listening experience provides- such as excessive detail, ability to resolve supposed room artifacts etc. etc.
These effects, in my substantial experience of live performances, just do not exist in a live listening environment, """

 

Just when I started to post in Agon and from there today I posted my first hand experiences through different times in different threads and with different audio item devices but all of those experiences are directly related to what intact audio shared:

 

the very first time that I remember to was around 30 years ago when I made a change of cables in my tonearm output where the IC was made of cooper and I changed by VDH silver cable. I did it with out any tiny SPL change. My first impressions were " terrible " and a heavy disappointment because with the silver cable suddenly the sound turn out DULL/no life. I make 3-4 times the cable change in the same listening session and at the end I left connected the VDH silver cable.

Next day and with out changing the SPL I listening with that silver cable by 4-5 hours in a row till I understand ( that was my first time I really was aware what in hell were happening down there. ) that what I was listening in reality was not a DULL sound but a way better quality sound level with " huge " lower distortions. That was the first time that I been aware too the benefit of the cable change for achieve too a lower system NOISE FLOOR.

Other experiences in exactly the same way ( with out changing SPL. ) and you can read it in my capacitor thread ( tech talk forum. ) where I posted the thread looking for help by other technical very good audiophiles knowing that my knowledge level about were lower than I imagine and I was a " follower " when talk about the best capacitors: things were that after some time in the thread I found out that the forbidden Wima/Vishay caps are the best caps ever. Obviously that all those gentlemans told me everything you could thing against me but one of those gentlemans took my challenge and he change ( somewhere in his system. ) his Jantzen expensive caps ( fancy caps that I owned too. As a fact I owned almost all fancy caps: Duelund, Jupiter, Mundorf, cooper tefon V-caps, and the like. I tested the Wima/VIshay either in electronics in a way critical place and at my speakers crossovers. ) for a 8.00 dollars Wima caps and after 2 weeks he posted that he did not likes the sound because was a DULL sound with out LIFE. He was missing, with out been aware, the Jantzen developed high distortions. Other gentlemans that already experienced the Wima supported that DULL sound and obviously all of them just do not like the natura/neutral color of live MUSIC but like high colored sound just like many of you including Mike Lavigne.

Is it my system a DULL syatem? no but the other way around and with very very low system noise floor.

Another experience was and is when I changed the SPL attenuators in my Essential SS Phonolinepreamp where those Swiss made attenuators mechanism were builded with true hole resistors where the signal pass through only one of those resistors at each SPL positions. Well, I changed both stereo pots ( my unit is dual mono fully balanced. ) by same mechanism but with SMD resistors and guess what?:

the difference was night and day and was nigth and day inside in a very high resolution system. Here the system noise floor that was truly low gone and goes even lower, just amazing when distortions goes out of each single link in any room/system chain.

Yes, now I can listen my system with higher SPL with out feeling that my ears are damage in any way, of course that I don’t listen to very high SPL.

 

All those experiences were posted more than once in the forum. So the gentlemans that insist in that I have to listen the Dava I will not because I already know that is full of developed distortions.

My speakers are 95db sensitivity level and attenuators fully opened I can put my ear at 2cm. from the tweeters and I can't listen nothing , no single sound/noise.

 

All these kind of experiences are the ones that permit me to said @mikelavigne that his Dart meter peacks with the cartridge that were 95db against only 40db with the digital medium were only heavy distortions that he likes a lot against digital in the Dizzy 4 LP.

 

That’s why I alway finish my posts with this:

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

 

 

Btw, I posted in this thread these on digital against LP:

 

""  

 The deep main reason is that: we are accustomed to those LP sound along its developed distortions.

When appeared the CD as even today we " like it " but do not " like it ", we always have an argument against digital even arguments that are totally false.

We refused and refuse to really think deep down there and ask our self: what are we missing with digital medium? because this is the issue. Here M Lavigne posted that LP is " complete " and obviously and against digital this medium is incomplete.

My take is that all of us are missing through digital medium ALL THE ADDED DISTORTIONS DEVELOPED THROUGH THE RECORDING AND PLAYBACK PROCCESS .

Our brain knows something is " different " down there: way lower distortions with digital.

 

R.

This is an instance where the necessary aspects of the AES48 can exist at the source and the load but in order to operate 'properly' the interface cabling must also be done to the standard (twisted pair with a shield) and I have only experienced a few cases where using this interface worked the same or better than the 'conventional' method.  

@intactaudio 

You may have misinterpreted my post.

I use the word symmetrical deliberately rather than the word balanced. Mikes phono cables are single ended. I believe through both listening experience and electrical theory that the cable loom between the MC and SUT should be symmetrical in construct.

This is my issue - quote from WBF on the LFD phono cables

The hot and the cold conductors are totally different from each other which is used to enhance the sound quality. This cable can be exclusively voiced to suit various systems RRP £16995.

Why an asymmetrical construct for a  symmetrical source and destination. Its like having a highway with 4 lanes going north and a B road going south. What is the science here ? How is there a benefit from loading +ve and -ve legs on the MC differently.

Voiced ? really, 16000 uk pounds for "voiced".

Do we want Freddy Mercury on helium, do we want Beyonce's lower treble whine that gets removed on the mixing desk to be accentuated, who decides what voice to present when manipulating these wires ?

All cables degrade the signal, no exceptions. Best cable is no cable.

Next best is the one that does the least damage to the signal.

Unfortunately in audio the least damaging would be one designed and built specifically for the source and destination components actually used, and backed up by measurement . In fact MIT used to offer this service many years ago - if you provided them the components they could measure them and build the optimum cable loom.

I know I could improve the $16k LFD cables audibly just by removing the plastic shroud for starters, getting rid of the heavy metal connectors and baubles and other jewellery hanging off of these wires.

Anyone out there can prove this easily - if they have speaker cables with plastic/polyproylene shroud - cut the plastic shroud off and listen. Those gaudy multicoloured plastic shrouds do a lot of damage to the signal, as do oversized heavy metal connectors. This is just for starters. Even heat shrink can degrade the signal.

My reference phono cable is around $20k US. It is not the price I have issues with, its the asymmetrical construct of the cable in this application. along with no explanation of the science other than - its a mixed bag of lollies, carefully selected after 30 years of eating lollies. Oh and if you have a favourite lolly I can mix a new bag of lollies with your favourites included.

Compare this LFD scenario to a friend who designed and built his own speakers amps etc.

One day I found he had some new speaker cables that he had constructed - the positive and negative legs were asymmetrical. I asked him what was the science.

He gave me an answer that included 2 points -

The +ve and -ve speaker cables were designed as part of the crossover and built/measured so that each of the speaker drivers saw the precise loads and crossover slopes he intended.

Secondly he explained that relative to the incoming power from the mains the +ve speaker wire was on one side of the mains transformer and the -ve speaker wire was on the other side directly connected to the mains. Ask @atmasphere about finding the centre point of a mains transformer.

That is what I call science, not I tried some wire and found one that sounds good.

 

 

 

 

If SQ is perceived as poor, increasing SPL makes mediocre SQ less tolerable, in my experience.

Bang on.

And it could be distortions from the system or components, or room itself that is the issue.

In some cases the listeners ears.

If you ask an audiologist you would be surprised at how non linear most folks hearing is, and of course often times people are unaware of hearing damage that may be sensitive to certain frequencies.

In relation to the reference to a db metre used.

These occurrences when arranged are purely Social Activities and used to extend a selection of individuals encounters and experiences, it is all done under the guise of Good Company, Good Food and Good Music, note Music is the least of the importance on a day like this, friends catching up is the fundamental goal. 

Attendees bring along their own Vinyl LP's as part of having a range of familiar materials being presented during an assessment of items put forward to be experienced where a common interest is shared.

Individuals I know, enjoy the occasional opportunity to measure a choice made for an item in comparison to an alternative item.

Individuals are also keen to hear their donated LP for the occasion at a SPL the are quite familiar with, when not experiencing it at such a level, there can be a settlement period to adapt.

 The db metre in use is not a scientific tool, it is basically a tool, to show to all attendees, the presentations are near parity in the SPL during a demonstration.

As said, ' Only when all is done and dusted in the comparisons, will the listeners ask to hear a replay of choice at a level they are accustomed to '.   

There will not be any items exchanged for assessment at this stage, but a curiosity might need to be nurtured if an item that is not familiar has impressed and is wanted to be experienced in use that is in keeping with one's usual practices.

If we as a group, were all to agree to add a period to see who could supply the best comedy, I will be the first to suggest that the methodology in use is not fair, and we hook up an oscilloscope, obviously, this will need to be immediately followed by passing the Tissues to assist with the Mopping Up the Eyes Streaming Tears, as a result of the fits of laughter.