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@crymeanaudioriver , there you go!
Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy
"Audiophiles are Snobs" Youtube features an idiot! He states, with no equivocation, that $5,000 and $10,000 speakers sound equally good and a $500 and $5,000 integrated amp sound equally good. He is either deaf or a liar or both!
There is a site filled with posters like him called Audio Science Review. If a reasonable person posts, they immediately tear him down, using selected words and/or sentences from the reasonable poster as100% proof that the audiophile is dumb and stupid with his money. They also occasionally state that the high end audio equipment/cable/tweak sellers are criminals who commit fraud on the public. They often state that if something scientifically measures better, then it sounds better. They give no credence to unmeasurable sound factors like PRAT and Ambiance. Some of the posters music choices range from rap to hip hop and anything pop oriented created in the past from 1995.
Have any of audiogon (or any other reasonable audio forum site) posters encountered this horrible group of miscreants?
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[START BOOK]
It was a comment about how amplifier design and speaker design has progressed. To your point, we have learned a lot.
The article, nor I differentiated what was current limiting, however, I believe the two examples you gave are not. This comes back to the math above. Some EE's could probably jump in on that.
Even I know that is about how the amplifier is designed and feedback. The feedback goes down as the frequency goes up. Going back to the math I learned today, as the feedback goes down, the stability will improve.
I think you made that up. That does not make sense.
If you mean tube amps, I noted that, and that ASR rarely tests them.
Which brings us back to the 99.9% of the time it does not happen. "Ring for some time"? You mean unstable. Again, even I know that. Perhaps you should not be the person trying to lecture me on this.
This is conjecture on your part. Fortunately, we can test this theory as Stereophile tests a lot of expensive speakers. Wilson Alexx5? No issue. Sabrina? No problem. Sasha, Alexia? No problem. Magico, 4 models, worst was 3 ohm, -60 degrees, not extreme by PowerCube article. B&W 801 - no issues. Big Magnepan? Child's play. Soundlab? Normally fine, but you can make the Brightness control nasty. Infinity IRS, etc. not as bad as many make out to be. Saw a note that tube amplifiers were considered in their design.
Restorer John is the only "restorer" and he does not come across as technical as others. More a tinkerer. As the conversation progressed as noted, the consensus (always detractors) was low resistance for sufficient for goals.
All 1 of them?
By far the most popular being Bruno Putzey designs and B&O. Nice thing given these are modules, they only need to be tested once to cover all units that will use them.
That is not a logical sentence.
I went back and saw that only one designer felt very strongly about it and he designed car audio amplifiers. That is not surprising given what car audio people will connect. Going back to the math I learned today, if the designer knows the transfer function, they can estimate with high probability if the amp will be unstable. You may want to read this:
No it does not, no more than the banter on "medicine" by people with limited knowledge of what they are talking about. It is akin to people here talking about feedback, even a 100 of them, compared to Bruno and his article.
Good marketing often wins over good product, and audio is no different. The first thing doctors often, if not normally do after hearing about the symptoms is to run tests. However, unlike audio, where only the external presentation matters, the patient describing symptoms are often the only measurements we may have of what is happening internally. The issue presents not when the patient describes their symptoms, but when the patient tries to force their diagnosis on the doctor, even when the tests indicate otherwise. The test is almost always correct. The listening part criticality is to ensure there are not multiple issues at play. The communication part is letting the patient think they had influence when they had none.
I will use this definition of redacted as I think it is appropriate:
There is no evidence of this. When someone quotes another poster, it is normal, as one would also do here, to cut out what the replyer considers extraneous content w.r.t. their reply. That is not redacting, that is editing. I have not seen nor experienced ASR "redact" anything, though they will suggest less harsh language.
All forums, with few exceptions, have moderation, including this one. If you label ASR censorship, then you have to label all others.
I only passively use ASR these days, so I will not comment on this. That was not my experience as of 2 years ago when I was still active, though I did find it at times toxic. I think alternate means, i.e. a sand-box for people who don't fit in would be more appropriate. However, I go back to my comment, that many of the commenters here would effectively be flat earth followers on a science site given what they write. Hence, I am not surprised by how ASR treated them and I don't think it is unwarranted.
Except we come back to 99.9% or more of amplifier / speaker combinations will not have stability problems, ASR does not test tube amplifiers often, and based on my research, however, limited, that even audiophile speakers do not commonly have extreme characteristics, then there will be no change, at the amplifier level, with almost all speakers.
I will only state that you have no provided any concrete examples of where this is the case, not even strong potential examples, though I have accepted tube amplifiers could be most at risk here.
Thermally induced variations in the load have no impact on the amplifier performance as you admitted it is effectively time invariant. Cable capacitance is very low, and with the rare exception, far in the past (was that Naim) has not been a real issue. One could argue there is no reason to have that low of capacitance.
You are pushing me out of my comfort zone, but I will respond with what I know, what I read, and my newfound knowledge of the math of stability and feedback. Looks like those math courses were not single minded! I read in one technical article that the electrical simulation models using resistors, inductors, and capacitors are both realistic and valid models of real speakers including the movement of the cones. As these are all linear elements, at least for the purposes of our discussion, then they can be simplified to magnitude and phase. Hence we are right back to our stability discussion and 99.9% it does not matter. Audiophiles may be interested. It does not mean their interest is relevant.
Testing power output at different frequencies and 8,4,2 ohms would cover your argument. Again, even I know what. Using a reactive load that is not the same as your speaker is not going to provide easy guidance.
But we go back to testing at 2,4,8 ohms, which is sufficient for 99.9% or more of speakers will provide all information needed on where the amplifier will clip, and testing with a reactive load will provide no additional information. How would you even related it to your speaker that you intend to use? [END BOOK]
This is just me, learning as I am going, finding it easy to counter your arguments, some of which I have a high confidence are flawed.
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Sir you have been here rambling on for awhile now. There has been NO ONE who says that measurements, ASR measurements or any measurements are useless! Most seem to be like my view. They aid in the evaluation of equipment, but I do not rely on them alone. What has been the issue from the 1st page is the culture of ASR! And that to that, you keep reiterating their point again and again..ad nauseam. For a man who flaunts his education, I would think you’d get it by now.
Amir don’t need a fanboy, fighting his battles. |
@henry99 , if you didn't have only 9 posts, all in this topic, all effectively band-handed attacks on ASR, then I may take your post seriously. However, as you do have only 9 posts, all in this topic, I see no need to take you seriously. That would create an account, solely for the purpose of attacking ASR is definitely a point of interest. Education is important if you want to understand certain topics. |