Audio Science Review = Rebuttal and Further Thoughts

@holmz , I thought everyone here knew how the virtual systems page works, my bad :). As for measurements, I am not against measurements, I thought posting them would be interesting if we are discussing measurements any way right?

To see a members system  from a thread just click on their handle/name in a post and click "details" in the drop down menu.

Have you ever noticed any system posted by the so called measurement folks? I don't doubt that some of them might have actually some good components. I feel it must be because they believe in measurements, they simply purchased a pair of speaker, some components and plopped them in some corner or even worse, who knows.

I don't know if careful setup is part of their system implementation process. Actually placement is the only measurement I do in my system. Takes me days sometimes when I fine tune with my ears. But when you purchase a pair of loudspeaker based on driver measurements (parts measurement, not sum of whole speaker), then I guess placement would not matter.

@kota1 

To see a members system  from a thread just click on their handle/name in a post and click "details" in the drop down menu. You will be taken to their profile and if they have posted a system it will be linked right there.

Thanks. Yes I can "systems" briefly appear on your page before it vanishes. I may have my browser locked down too hard, or macOS/Safari may not be agreeable. I might try a bit later on a Windows VM ...

@milpai , that is an excellent point, I would like to see some "meat on the bone" and if someone wants to talk measurements, post some of your own and then lets talk. I would always try and get the room first, the speaker placement second, the power third, the IC's 4th and NOW you should be able to actually discern the difference a quality component makes. Otherwise I don't see how you will ever get the best value of the money spent.

@milpai

Have you ever noticed any system posted by the so called measurement folks? I don’t doubt that some of them might have actually some good components. I feel it must be because they believe in measurements, they simply purchased a pair of speaker, some components and plopped them in some corner or even worse, who knows.

I don’t know if careful setup is part of their system implementation process. Actually placement is the only measurement I do in my system. Takes me days sometimes when I fine tune with my ears. But when you purchase a pair of loudspeaker based on driver measurements (parts measurement, not sum of whole speaker), then I guess placement would not matter.

I don’t know if I fully qualify (I do like to see measurements but I’d baulk at buying an amp or speaker without listening). But setup measurements are totally useful and necessary in my book.

I bought new speakers last year (Audio Physic Codex, replacing Tempo) put them where the old ones were. Had a decent listen first and made some notes. Bass had a boom but mid-bass was dry. Midrange maybe too forward but along with treble it’s clear and really pretty nice. Toed them in a bit.

Ran measuring app (Fuzzmeasure with the mic at listening position aka LP) with triple sweeps on left then right speakers. Nasty null 70-80 Hz (predicted coincidence of lateral and oblique modes per Amcoustics room model) obvious peak at 50 Hz (ditto, from the second long mode) and a few high-Q suckouts up to Schroeder (~300 Hz) bringing overall mid-bass energy down (explains ’boom’ and ’dry’). Marked out the floor at 200 mm steps and moved speakers toward the side wall, measuring each step. The null was mitigated (as you’d expect) but treble started to roll off a bit > 10 kHz, so four steps sideways then one step back. Similar stepping toward the back wall with no difference to the bass boom (as you’d expect, needs a metre or more in the other direction at that wavelength really but not enough room in the loft for that) but treble picked up again.

Adjusted toe-in to face LP. Stereo image is pretty nice (as expected from Audio Physic spaced wide and aimed properly). Toed-in to cross in front of LP but lost some soundstage width so back to aiming at me. Good so far. That leaves the 50 Hz peak and the 100-300 Hz range to fill in bit and match 1 kHz level. That’s what DSP is for so run Sonarworks (~ 40 sweeps around the listening position) and apply the classic B&K 1974 curve. Boom gone, nice subtle balancing of midbass warmth and a little bit of excess gone from the midrange. Stereo image focus improves as well. Looking and sounding pretty good now.

No one has to follow my methods of course, but they work for me. Why futz around in the dark? All the positive sonics of the gear but mitigate some negative impacts of the room (there’s more to that story but another time). There’s no contradiction in my mind between useful setup measurements and nice audio gear.