Audio Science Review = Rebuttal and Further Thoughts


@crymeanaudioriver @amir_asr You are sitting there worrying if this or that other useless tweak like a cable makes a sonic difference.

I don’t worry about my equipment unless it fails. I never worry about tweaks or cables. The last time I had to choose a cable was after I purchased my first DAC and transport in 2019.  I auditioned six and chose one, the Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Euphoria. Why would someone with as fulfilling a life as me worry about cables or tweaks and it is in YOUR mind that they are USELESS.

@prof "would it be safe to say you are not an electrical designer or electrical engineer? If so, under what authority do you make the following comment" - concerning creating a high end DAC out of a mediocre DAC.

Well, I have such a DAC, built by a manufacturer of equipment and cables for his and my use. It beat out a $9,000 COS Engineering D1v and $5,000 D2v by a longshot. It is comparable to an $23,000 Meridian Ultradac. Because I tried all the latter three in comparison I say this with some authority, the authority of a recording engineer (me), a manufacturer (friend) and many audiophiles who have heard the same and came to the same conclusion.

Another DAC with excellent design engineer and inferior execution is the Emotiva XDA-2. No new audio board but 7! audiophile quality regulators instead of the computer grade junk inside, similar high end power and filter caps, resistors, etc. to make this into a high end DAC on the very cheap ($400 new plus about the same in added parts).

@russ69 We must be neighbors. I frequented Woodland Hills Audio Center back in the 70s and 80s. I heard several of Arnie’s speakers including a the large Infinity speakers in a home.

fleschler

@milpai

Have you ever noticed any system posted by the so called measurement folks? I don’t doubt that some of them might have actually some good components. I feel it must be because they believe in measurements, they simply purchased a pair of speaker, some components and plopped them in some corner or even worse, who knows.

I don’t know if careful setup is part of their system implementation process. Actually placement is the only measurement I do in my system. Takes me days sometimes when I fine tune with my ears. But when you purchase a pair of loudspeaker based on driver measurements (parts measurement, not sum of whole speaker), then I guess placement would not matter.

I don’t know if I fully qualify (I do like to see measurements but I’d baulk at buying an amp or speaker without listening). But setup measurements are totally useful and necessary in my book.

I bought new speakers last year (Audio Physic Codex, replacing Tempo) put them where the old ones were. Had a decent listen first and made some notes. Bass had a boom but mid-bass was dry. Midrange maybe too forward but along with treble it’s clear and really pretty nice. Toed them in a bit.

Ran measuring app (Fuzzmeasure with the mic at listening position aka LP) with triple sweeps on left then right speakers. Nasty null 70-80 Hz (predicted coincidence of lateral and oblique modes per Amcoustics room model) obvious peak at 50 Hz (ditto, from the second long mode) and a few high-Q suckouts up to Schroeder (~300 Hz) bringing overall mid-bass energy down (explains ’boom’ and ’dry’). Marked out the floor at 200 mm steps and moved speakers toward the side wall, measuring each step. The null was mitigated (as you’d expect) but treble started to roll off a bit > 10 kHz, so four steps sideways then one step back. Similar stepping toward the back wall with no difference to the bass boom (as you’d expect, needs a metre or more in the other direction at that wavelength really but not enough room in the loft for that) but treble picked up again.

Adjusted toe-in to face LP. Stereo image is pretty nice (as expected from Audio Physic spaced wide and aimed properly). Toed-in to cross in front of LP but lost some soundstage width so back to aiming at me. Good so far. That leaves the 50 Hz peak and the 100-300 Hz range to fill in bit and match 1 kHz level. That’s what DSP is for so run Sonarworks (~ 40 sweeps around the listening position) and apply the classic B&K 1974 curve. Boom gone, nice subtle balancing of midbass warmth and a little bit of excess gone from the midrange. Stereo image focus improves as well. Looking and sounding pretty good now.

No one has to follow my methods of course, but they work for me. Why futz around in the dark? All the positive sonics of the gear but mitigate some negative impacts of the room (there’s more to that story but another time). There’s no contradiction in my mind between useful setup measurements and nice audio gear.

@kota1 

 

@prof you are a long time member and I assumed too much, understood. If you look at my profile you will see a list of components I use, pics of my rig, and my room measurements. Would you be so kind to post something similar in your profile? I am sincerely interested. Thanks

Ok, sure.

I’m not going to bother setting up a profile. I just don’t care enough - I never do those on other sites either. If someone asks about my gear I’ll happily tell them what I use.

Like any audiophile I’ve owned lots of different equipment. Especially lots of speakers. I went on a selling extra gear binge over the last few years, so now I’m down to stuff I won’t part with.

Speakers:

Thiel 2.7

Joseph Audio Perspectives

Spendor S3/5

Hales Transcendence 1 and Center channel (mostly for home theater, though sometimes do music duty).

Amplification:

Conrad Johnson Premier 12 monoblocks

Conrad Johnson Premier 16LS2 preamp

Benchmark LA4 preamp

Sources - Digital:

Benchmark DAC 2L

Streamer (ripped CDs and Tidal etc): Bluesound NODE. (It’s new, I’m testing it out, up until now I’ve used a Raspberry Pi/Logitech server system)

Analog:

Turntable: Transrotor Fat Bob S, Acoustic Solid arm, Benz Micro Ebony L cartridge.

JE Audio HP10 phono stage

Cabling: Mix of stuff. Belden 10 awg for speaker cable (long run from amps to speakers in separate room). Interconnects...always a mess of stuff, whatever I’ve had lying ar0und, or borrowed, or was given over the years. There’s some Kimber in there, Audioquest, Nordost (cast offs from someone else’s system) etc. I don’t sweat cables. At the moment I have some absurdly expensive XLR cables between my DAC, Phono Stage and Benchmark loaned to me. Can’t even remember what they are. :-) But I’ll replace them with some competent spec’d stuff probably from Mogami or something).

I hope that is enlightening somehow :-)

 

@prof how about that we have something in common, the Node. I like the Bluos software and it sounds OK on my desktop. In my main system it isn't a good match. With the DAC you use it should be fine as a streamer though. Have you ever taken any measurements?

I’m not sure I’d do a profile either, I tend to put as little information as possible into online repositories when I’m not the paying client.

If it helps to contextualise, my source is usually Apple Music on M2 MacBook Pro > asynchronous USB audio over Apple Thunderbolt Pro cable to exaSound e68 DAC > SWAMP Premium Mini XLR to Krell KAV-2250 > Analysis Plus Black Oval 12 cable to above-mentioned AP Codex sitting on AP mag-lev feet.

In audiophile style I’ve even checked cable details for all ya’ll.

Oh nearly forgot the Teddy Pardo power supply for the DAC (couldn't come at the standard wall-wart). Also amusingly, the Apple cable cost just a bit more per metre than the Analysis Plus. But it has excellent haptics.

@axo1989 , your post is very helpful, I like how you test and move, test and move and then DSP is used to fine tune. So sad how many people think DSP is all you need. Its only when you do the speaker positioning and the room that its able to fine tune it. I see you started your virtual system, looking forward to seeing it.