Primaluna or not Primaluna


Hej

I have been hesitated some time now between buying new speakers or a new amplifier and have decided I will buy a new amplifier.

My list of demands:
It will take EL34, KT77, KT88 and 6550. Bonus if it takes KT120.
It will give at least 35 w with EL34 and 45 w with KT88.
It will have easy biasing using a screwdriver and with somekind of build in meter. In worst case autobiase will do.
It will use tube rectification and not solid state rectification (because I have heard solid state rectification takes away the tube sound).
It will not cost more than aprox $4000.


I have had a Line Magnetic LM-34IA once but had to much problems with the quality (bad solderings and bad balance between left and right).
First I thought it sounded quite good, but after have heard a Audion Audio Stirling EL34 SET amplifier I changed my mind. Now the LM-34AI sounded just OK.
I was told that Stirling EL34, with 12 w should be enough for listening at normal volumes with my 89dB speakers. But it was not. So here I am…
(And yes I know; a push-pull amp will never sound as a SET amp).


I have read about several amplifiers but none of them seems to fit my demands.

Here are my notes:
Line Magnetic LM-88IA   -   Just KT88. Bad experience with LM, both quality and sound.
Audio Research I/50   -   Just 6550 tubes. Too much hassle when adjusting bias.
Rogue Cronus Magnum III   -   Very mixed opinions. Solid state rectification.
Raven Blackhawk Mk 3.1   -   Just 6L6 tubes. Have to be imported from the US.
Tsakiridis Aelos Plus   -  Just KT88 tubes.
Fezz Silver Luna Prestige   -   Just EL34 tubes.
Fezz Titania   -   Just KT120 tubes (and maybe KT150 and KT170 too).
Cary SLI-80HS   -   Many bad opinions. Solid state rectification.
Jadis   -   Either too weak or too expencive.
Primaluna   -   ???

What makes me a little ”worried” is that Primaluna has so many build in features which are supposed to make my life as a tube amplifier owner easier.
I mean, doesn’t these fetures affect the sound? ”Less is more”?

 

If you have any thoughts or experience about this, please let me know.

simna

I have a Primaluna dialogue premium hp integrated amplifier for 3 years and it sounds good with the 8 KT120 tubes, I also have the Decware Zen TORII Mk 5 for a year now and the Decware though it has less power sounds so much better and more detailed. I also have a Black Ice Fusion F35 Integrated with the 6550 tubes that I use as a headphone amp that sounds great for headphones but just OK through my speakers. The Primaluna and the Decware are playing through a pair of Acoustic Research AR308 HO speakers with a 93dB rating, and they also play through my Omega speaker systems Super Alnico High Output XRS speakers, with a 97dB rating (more like only 95dB) which sounds just fantastic, no crossovers and single point drivers. which fills my room about 14' X 18' with plenty of sound at only 15 to 25 watts of power. The Primaluna plays directly to the speakers while the Decware plays through my Denafrips Hades Unity Gain, 0dB preamp, I use this so I can have remote control for volume.

I owned the PrimaLuna integrated using 6550 tubes and it was reliable and sounded good with my Elac 247.2 speakers. When I retrieved my Audio Research solid state D240 MKII I sold the PL. I found the PL a fuss free amp that is auto biased and whilst it allows power and output tube rolling I never bothered. These amps keep their value. Earlier I owned a new LM 518ia 845 amp that didn’t really give me the 845 experience I was looking for, I had no operational problems with it though. I currently use a fully tube CD player that provides the tube transparency and holographic sound feeding my ARC pre pro system. Great combo… The PL is a very commercial amp, well enough made, reliable and easy to operate which does what it says on the package. Good but not fabulous.

I had a Primaluna Dialogue Premium. It did not have the detail I was accustomed to hearing. I gave the brand one last chance and traded it in for a Primaluna Evo 400...there was a big difference in detail.

However, it is not the last word in detail retrieval. But it’s got other things going for it. I had a tube make a loud pop and one channel was gone. The protection system indicated a bad tube. I got the tubeset from a non qualified vendor. I was afraid the incident blew one of my new Tannoy speakers. I switched speaker cable and luckily the speaker was saved.

The Evo 400 has a protection fuse for each of the autobias channels. And they're conveniently located in the side of the amp...no need to open it up.

The amp also came with extra fuses. I popped one in and replaced the tubeset and all is good. In my 3rd year and this was the first incident.

They are bulletproof. They run the tubes gently. That will come at a sonic cost. But it is still a great sounding amp in the romantic sense. It’s just a very flattering sound.

 

As tube-amp.: PrimaLuna isn’t  à “wohw”-amp. , not  bad but more An amp for “beginners”. :sound is à little bit sharp, not so detailfull, is very open. I prefer: Ear 509, VAC phi 300.1 , Wavac  805m , Audio Aero Prestige , Mal Valve 2 ,…( Less: Macintosh, Audio Research, Jadis,…)

As tube-amp.: PrimaLuna isn’t  à “wohw”-amp. , not  bad but more An amp for “beginners”. :sound is à little bit sharp, not so detailfull, is very open.

I am not sure what:

  1. sharp and detail full mean, but I would expect sharp to be detailfull.
  2. nor what “wohw” translates to?
  3. and I am only about 50% certain on what “open” means.

Mine, on “Triode”, seems less full of harmonic distortion than on Utra-linear, but UL is nice for some gendres like rock.

Vocals and piano seem better in Triode to my ear.
(Maybe ^that^ is “open”?)

Personally I would not want it to be more tubey, but many people like that sound.

 

I dislike sibilance, and most tube amps do not grate on me, just some are more tubey and harmonically rich and other are “less exciting” and seem cleaner.
I generally like the later ones.

When I am sort of “meh” on an amp, that is usually a sign that it is doing what it does and not adding a lot.

It might compress, or something like that, in the higher dynamic range bursts… but it does not tend to get the grainy treble when the music gets loud, like some older SS amps did. 

If the OP likes a tube sound then they will likely prefer to run it in UltraLinear (UL).

Hence my earlier comment on Class-D (and just using a tube pre)… that seems like it is another viable option, and after having had the PL power amp *(Dialogue Premium HP) for a year+ I like it, but am not wedded to it… which means that I guess it is good.
And I have been playing it a lot more in Triode mode lately.
(Not as exciting, but more airy and recessed.)

I would suggest that the OP may want to listen to one in a shop and see if they like UL or triode… as that is akin to some of the difference when moving up and down the tubey sound spectrum of amps.

 

I prefer: Ear 509, VAC phi 300.1 , Wavac  805m , Audio Aero Prestige , Mal Valve 2 ,…( Less: Macintosh, Audio Research, Jadis,…)

^THIS^ Seems like it may be very useful @lukaske 
How do those amps fall on a spectrum?
How is the AR and Jadis sound compared to the Ear (etc.)?
Are they warmer or colder? Or what?