2. tech-talk
  3. 180326-17492

Audio Science Review = Rebuttal and Further Thoughts

@crymeanaudioriver @amir_asr You are sitting there worrying if this or that other useless tweak like a cable makes a sonic difference.

I don’t worry about my equipment unless it fails. I never worry about tweaks or cables. The last time I had to choose a cable was after I purchased my first DAC and transport in 2019.  I auditioned six and chose one, the Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Euphoria. Why would someone with as fulfilling a life as me worry about cables or tweaks and it is in YOUR mind that they are USELESS.

@prof "would it be safe to say you are not an electrical designer or electrical engineer? If so, under what authority do you make the following comment" - concerning creating a high end DAC out of a mediocre DAC.

Well, I have such a DAC, built by a manufacturer of equipment and cables for his and my use. It beat out a $9,000 COS Engineering D1v and $5,000 D2v by a longshot. It is comparable to an $23,000 Meridian Ultradac. Because I tried all the latter three in comparison I say this with some authority, the authority of a recording engineer (me), a manufacturer (friend) and many audiophiles who have heard the same and came to the same conclusion.

Another DAC with excellent design engineer and inferior execution is the Emotiva XDA-2. No new audio board but 7! audiophile quality regulators instead of the computer grade junk inside, similar high end power and filter caps, resistors, etc. to make this into a high end DAC on the very cheap ($400 new plus about the same in added parts).

@russ69 We must be neighbors. I frequented Woodland Hills Audio Center back in the 70s and 80s. I heard several of Arnie’s speakers including a the large Infinity speakers in a home.

fleschler
pcrhkr's avatar
pcrhkr
276 posts
 

I highly respect Audio Science Review. I highly respect the expertise and measurement tools they have mastered to do analysis on audio equipment.

The measurements tell how well the signal propagates in then effectively the signal is amplified. Human ears are as diverse as the equipment that is tested. So are tastes in music. Audio accuracy is in the ear of the beholder. I owned Mid-Fi equipment that measured better than many audiophile Audio. It had shamelessly low THD, I’m distortion Damping factor over 400. Audiophile amps sounded so much better. One such audiophile system was Mark Levinson.

While measuring can be a guide, trust your ears.

jtgofish's avatar
jtgofish
515 posts
 

The more I learn about the Toole and Olive research on speakers which ASR and other objectivists quote as gospel the more I get the smell of book cooking.The selection of two speaker samples with abnormally narrow dispersion and uneven frequency response and also which just happen to sound bad seems like too much of  a coincidence to be ignored.So it is as if the designers of those tests set out with an agenda to reinforce their hypothesis that speakers with even and wide off axis responses were preferred by listeners to those with narrow and uneven frequency responses.Which might be correct but the degree of skewing of the results by selecting a couple of really bad examples of the other type seems very suspect.

kota1
2,706 posts
 

@jtgofish , at least there is data to support what listeners like in speakers and headphones. Do you know of any data that supports what listeners prefer in DACS? ASR seems to rank DACS by SINAD. Can anyone reading this thread (calling @amir_asr ) point me to a published study that shows that both trained and casual listeners prefer DACS with low SINAD? Without that data that list is pretty much useless in guiding purchase decisions.

djones51
4,947 posts
 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK10924/#:~:text=Humans%20can%20detect%20sounds%20in,to%2015%E2%80%9317%20kHz.

 

The human ear as a dyamic range from 0dB (threshold) to 120-130 dB. This is true for the middle frequency range (1-2 kHz). For lower or higher frequencies, the dynamic is narrowed.

http://www.cochlea.org/en/hear/human-auditory-range

 Best case Noise floor of most listening rooms 30db-40db.

SINAD will tell you if the DAC contributes any noise or distortion that's audible.  If you prefer noise and distortion or transparent is up to you.

kota1
2,706 posts
 

@djones51 , thanks for the link about human physiology. Please find a link that shows what listeners prefer in a DAC. Here is a white paper of what listeners prefer in headphones as an example:

 

More to discover