Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil


I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy

Hello Everyone

 

It has been now over 4 years since the last post. 

We have now moved and live in Cape Breton. So the room is not exactly the same room as the past. Actually a very different room! My tests have always been done not from memory though. Always run 3 amps of similar style and brand.

Speaker tests were one cap at a time leaving the other speaker as it was.

 

I do have updates coming. I had one amp completely redone (Fisher 500C) with Duelund CAST tinned copper. (updates on that coming) 

I have a set of Duelund IC's now to evaluate.

I can say when I had Chris at Parts Connexion install all the CAST caps I wondered what I had done. Very stiff, very mechanical. I was not mad just more disappointed.

All of my past tests were often one cap at a time and test. Not replace the entire amp! It is very disorientating to replace all the caps at once. Going all the way to CAST caps. 

 

One of the other amps has been rebuilt with all Jupiter Copper Foil caps. Another favourite of mine. During the Pandemic I could only get what was in stock. Limited of everything.

I waited until March of this year to get the amps fixed because we did live fairly close to Parts Connexion but would not be after the move. 

So that being the reason to do it all at one time. (move)

 

I had issues for sure with Jensen Copper Paper tube caps. At least 3 of them had catastrophic failures. Two of the times damage was done to the amp. The third I caught in time. They would just fail after many years and for no reason. Right out of the blue!

The scary part was not just the cost of the cap! The cost of losing cap but the damage and the hours to repair in shop!

I had posted on this after failure 2 I think. After failure 3 all of the Jensen caps came out. I would never sell them even as used because it is just too risky for anyone.

My repair guy from my home town was very good guy as I have mentioned years ago. To him take out ALL those exotic caps and problems go away. Yes, in a way...

 

He also suggested maybe that was the cost of having caps like this if I wanted the sound. In reality I wanted the sound but not the risk of fire or expensive damage.

I have had Jupiter leads fall off. Duelund leak oil and Ampohm fail as well. None caused damage though except Jensen. Sadly. Nothing against the caps but one should be concerned. Maybe mine were bad batch but they were from different times.

 

I was checking the views of this thread. I knew it was a lot years ago but 10,853,109 is more than I think many would expect and for sure more than I expected!

 

When I started the blog I said well I could not find unbiased non advertising driven info on capacitors. How good were they? Compared to other things what was the value? So I just started posting my tests. I also wanted other people to post later on as well to confirm it. In the beginning I did not know if anyone would see it.

 

 

 

 

 

I also had a problem with oil leaking from a Duelund capacitor a few years ago. No support from Duelund or Parts Connextion.

@volleyguy1

Hi it’s nice to have you back and glad you are doing well. I have fond memories of this thread. I have had Duelund CAST capacitors in my Coincident Total Eclipse II speakers (Tweeter cap) and Yamamoto DAC for quite a number of years. Superb sound quality and fortunately no problems to report.

Charles

Hi Charles

 

It is nice to talk to you after all this time! 

Glad to hear your Duelund CAST have worked out long term! My CAST in the speakers or my RS or VSF have never been a problem. 

Only in the amplifier itself which is of course much higher voltage and heat. (being a tube amp) 

Now the caps I used of course were all rated for that voltage. By far the most problems were with Jensen caps and all of the damage was with those caps.

I would have to go count my cap total but it is well over 30. Maybe 40+ :) It adds up!

When I am finished breaking the CAST Tinned Copper in it is going to be about the LONG break in! 

I started to hear some improvement at around 100 hours and that got me thinking and I went online and saw a post on here from Grannyring talking about the 400 hour break in. I knew it with CAST (more than RS or VSF) but never changed a whole amp at once. That was HUGE change. I would often change one or maybe two at a time. Not the whole amp!

How long did you find the break in to be in speakers?

 

roxy54

 

Did they say why? 

 

I did not get any "help" with the Jensen either but some were over 10+ years old and Jensen is out of business.

How long should they last? Then what? Fix cap? Pay for damage to amp? Well the 1965 ones in the amp were still "good" in the sense they were not shorted out. The 2008-2012 or whatever the Jensen were, were shot...

A bit of trial and tribulations this whole thing was plus stress. Plus stress on relationship with tech.

My tech guy who I do like as a person, almost wanted to punish me. He does not like the whole industry at all! I get it. From his point of view he could never have a failure rate on his repairs as high as I did or he would be broke. Reputation would be shot. He would say this is not 1935 with old paper in oil caps. Not entirely wrong.

I have had amps repaired with cheap poly caps and could not stand it. :/

Yet most of us do like the "sound" of these modern vintage caps. 

Thank goodness my damage was limited to one brand. That brand was often put into second amp as the caps were not cheap. After 3rd failure they were just all pulled completely. 

A tube amp can be a tough environment.