Pleasurably better, not measurably better

@holmz "And it does not matter what every member of the audience is hearing..."

If you’re a member of the audience, it certainly does! It matters to oneself.

Ultimately, it does not matter what every measurement is telling me, if it doesn’t sound great to me, with my ears, in my room, to my taste.

Like someone earlier in this thread here, I am not here to serve the gear, the gear is here to serve me... so matter how "good" or how "bad" the measurable performance, if it doesn’t serve me pleasurably better, then it has no place in my home. Some "audiophiles" really are more "technophiles;" and technophilia has it’s place, but it ain’t gonna dictate my loving audio preferences.

I’ve heard plenty of speakers that "measure better" but that I do not like as much as certain personal trusty pleasurables, so obviously it would be downright silly to buy the less enjoyable speakers just because they measure better! (unless I’m trying to impress somebody other than myself... or if I’m being masochistic or audio-moralistic and insisting to myself that I should like the less enjoyable speakers, and damnit I’m going to make myself like them better because I "should"... )

Ok - I generally agree that one should get what they like.
But if we want the reproduction to still sound like the singer, then we generally want something that is not distorted to hell n back.

Then again I have heard some speakers with a lot of personality that sounded pretty good.

And I have some tube gear, so I must like some distortion, just like everyone else.
But the gear is not too far over on the spectrum of tubey.

I heard some speaker with the low distortion Purifi drivers, and they were pretty outstanding, so it is not like accuracy and low distortion is bad… 

I heard some speaker with the low distortion Purifi drivers, and they were pretty outstanding, so it is not like accuracy and low distortion is bad… 

No, I'm not saying they are either, but that no oscilloscope or calibrated microphone knows the experience you are trying to have, that you want to have, that makes you feel good.

No, I’m not saying they are either, but that no oscilloscope or calibrated microphone knows the experience you are trying to have, that you want to have, that makes you feel good.

Yeah true.
But most people find certain distortions are grating.
There is decades of research, that I do not want to just ignore.

i suspect that your “Custom sub integrator‘ integrator thread will be using measurements. And my AVR seems to sound better after the microphone is plugged in and it calibrates itself.

Someone, somewhere, figured out that statistically people like it when it corrects for the room. While I would like to think I am different and unique, the sound seems better when it does it all for me.

I do have some settings which have a tilt, or tone control slope… and I can rattle through to choose the one I like best for that show or movie.

But most people find certain distortions are grating.
There is decades of research, that I do not want to just ignore.

I think what most people ignore is that many measurements were done for convenience, or to ensure equitable comparisons between gear and the research into human preference is not the same research on how to lower distortion in an current mirror.

It’s actually different for different people. I can’t stand Pass sound for instance, who famously adds certain types of distortion.  Many, many love it.  I won’t buy Pass gear because others love it, nor do I avoid it because it has relatively high distortion.

I would happily trade any Pass amp for a Conrad Johnson Premiere 8, which I am sure has higher distortion and even a more limited bandwidth.

This is a great example of what I’m talking about.

My own personal preferences trump both.

i suspect that your “Custom sub integrator‘ integrator thread will be using measurements.

Of course, because it is very hard to deal with bass modes and crossover matching without it, but the final subwoofer level will be what I personally decide.

Someone, somewhere, figured out that statistically people like it when it corrects for the room.

You know, we think that room correction algorithms are exercises in pure math, but they are not. Even when deciding how the algorithms should work, how much of the initial vs. reflected sounds, etc. is... an aesthetic choice made by several different groups of people. The math doesn’t drive the choices. The listening drives the choices of how the algorithms should work for every room correction algorithm.

That is real science. Going from user experience to models and math. That is science. Using 30 year old measurements to determine what is good is not science, it is quality assurance at best, idolatry at worst.