Do Streamer only devices really impact sound quality?


From a layman mindset, a streamer transmits electronic information to a dac via coaxial cable or other connection. The electronic information I believe is standardized for all streamers. That said, the streamer itself could not influence the sound quality heard by the audience. I think it is bit-perfect information coming across to the dac. 

So for instance a Bluesound 2i   vs  Cambridge CXN V2 streamer should sound identical with the same connections and equipment used and of course same streaming service and content.

 

thoughts appreciated if I have this correct?  

dvdgreco

@soix +

 

Resolution, transparency not the most  difficult aspect of sound quality to achieve with streaming. Yes, noise, both external and self generated can enter at many points, but even with less than best streamers relatively high resolution, transparency can be achieved assuming one has decent dac.

 

My experience has found timing greatly impacts digital sound quality. Get the timing right throughout entire streaming setup and the closer one gets to positive traits of analog. Correct timing allows largest soundstage, most stable imaging, and most importantly, greater sense of ease, relaxed musical experience. Jitter is what gives digital it's bad name, and the reason some maintain vinyl superior to digital. New custom build streamer I recently purchased was built with parts and components specifically chosen for lowest latency, low latency means less jitter. Using the same dac as with prior streamers, greater levels of resolution/transparency has certainly been achieved, but sense of ease or analog like sound qualities has been revelatory.

 

I observe ever decreasing levels of measured jitter in digital components, certainly large measure of why digital continues to improve.

 

Another critical thing to remember, you can never get back what has been lost earlier in streaming chain. No dac can clean up noise or jitter created earlier in chain, just as optical with it's total galvanic isolation can't restore whats been lost in regard to noise, the jitter manufactured within streamer has already contaminated the bit chain, even the finest asynchronous clocks in dacs can't restore whats been lost prior.

 

There is a reason why the best streamers attain higher levels of sound quality, lower latency/jitter and self generated noise. If dacs could really restore whats been lost streamers would all sound the same.

 

Finally, I presume digital at some point in future will finally surpass the very best analog/vinyl. Audiophile and/or digital engineers are paying close attention to these latency issues within digital components, Ever decreasing jitter will be achieved in future components, this along with ever decreasing noise will further improve digital sound quality.

@tk21  @soix  I think two different setups are being discussed here.  My take is that tk21 is talking about not hearing the impact of a streamer in an all in one unit. So yes who knows if any difference is due the DAC or the streamer, or parts , or implementation within the "streamer".  Most of the other posts have been about streamers separate from the DAC , so  if one is using the same DAC, streamer output to it, and cables  it obviously allows for a notable comparison.

I did a quick search for Darko's streamer reviews.  Not sure I found the one @soix cited.  Anyway, Darko's highest praise seems to go to the Logitech Squeezebox Touch. 
 

@tk21 The title of the Darko Squeezebox video is unfortunate and misleading.  If you watch the video he compared the SBT to a Bluesound Node 3 and finds them comparable — hardly high praise in the scheme of things.  Here’s the video I was alluding to in my prior post that is a bit dated but still relevant for pointing out differences between streamers…

https://darko.audio/2019/02/a-short-film-about-the-innuos-zen-mk3/

Not sure what to make of that title.  I suppose Darko might be saying that the SBT was a relatively affordable engineering marvel, not that it's the best-sounding such device ever made, regardless of price. The same might be said of the latest Bluesound Node. But the Node is not only a streamer/file-player, it's also a DAC.  It can be used for volume-control, too. I've seen reports that it's quite good when used only as a streamer (feeding digital output to a downstream DAC).  If that is our baseline, how much SQ improvement can one expect by switching to a much more expensive stand-alone streamer (such as the Auralic Aries G2.1)?

 

But the Node is not only a streamer/file-player, it’s also a DAC. It can be used for volume-control, too. I’ve seen reports that it’s quite good when used only as a streamer (feeding digital output to a downstream DAC). If that is our baseline, how much SQ improvement can one expect by switching to a much more expensive stand-alone streamer (such as the Auralic Aries G2.1)?

@tk21 A ton of improvement is possible. Reports that the Node is “quite good” should not be inferred to mean that it’s anywhere near even not much more expensive alternatives. Example, an Innuos Mini Mk3 with LPS power supply upgrade is near the upscale Zen Mk3 in performance (and no one would put the Node, even with upgraded power supply on the level of the Zen Mk3), and even its DAC does a very good job with the LPS. Innuos has trickled down tech from its upper models that the Node can’t match even with an external power supply, and the Zen Mini will scale up much better if/when you upgrade to a better DAC. Yes, it costs a bit more, but you’re also getting a lot more. Underestimate the role/impact of a streamer at your peril.  Here’s Darko’s review of the Zen Mini both with and without the upgraded external power supply and with/without its internal DAC FWIW…

https://darko.audio/2019/11/innuos-zen-mini-mk3-review/