Audio Science Review = Rebuttal and Further Thoughts

measurements need to reflect reality. Unfortunately acoustics at this stage of scientific development is more art than science.….and being doctrinaire about using measurements when they don‘t reflect reality is very dogmatic, not scientific.

I agree, but none of that means that any wacky audiophile claim, or any marketing claim made for a product, is legit.  We have to have some way to winnow out b.s. from the real. 

Remember that almost all high end audio present their claims as technical claims of one sort or another.  They are either explicit, or allude to some technical "problem" their products address in getting us "closer to the music."  The technical claims can be addressed via technical inquiry by a knowledgeable person with equipment.  Notice virtually no manufacturer actually corrects Amir, as in "no, you are measuring the wrong things...HERE is how we measured the phenomenon we claim to have addressed in our product."   It never moves beyond marketing.  (The one attempt I've seen was by PS Audio...but their attempt to rebut Amir by showing how they would measure their product flopped pretty badly). 

So mere assertions of dogma are neither here nor there.  People either have better evidence or arguments against what Amir has concluded...or they don't.

As I said, his reviews receive quite a bit of scrutiny on ASR by technically knowledgeable members.  I find the critiques of some tests by ASR members FAR more pointed and convincing than those outside...especially in threads like this.

Which is why I find it silly to presume ASR is some lock-step cult where everyone just uncritically accepts whatever Amir says.   I myself have been in plenty of dust-ups with Amir. 

I agree. Only a person who is insane can spend considerable time there.

I guess I've just been diagnosed as insane ;-)

When the leader of a forum states that "I know all I have to know" to begin a discussion,

I don't know where that quote comes from, but in any case it's cherry picking to seize on one thing he (or anyone else) may have said at one point, to ignore all the other reasonable claims and tests he has produced.  THAT is a form of motivated self-blindness in itself.  It's like twitter-think.

I've heavily disagreed with Amir on a number of issues, but see that on other things he has made a very good case.  Someone looking for an out will seize on something Amir said they don't like.  Someone interested in truth and intellectually honest conversation will have a wider view and note there may be "good" with the "bad."

 

that is the time you know that it's a closed forum and nothing can be gained by spending time with them.

What do you think of someone who insists his perception is so reliable he can not be wrong?  That is essentially the basis of the Golden Ear cohort of audiophiles who push back on every single argument/measurement/counter-evidence with the claim "But I Know What I Heard So I Know What I Know And You Can't Tell Me Otherwise!"

How much do you expect to gain from that?

Yep! 

@prof 

"Notice virtually no manufacturer actually corrects Amir, as in "no, you are measuring the wrong things...HERE is how we measured the phenomenon we claim to have addressed in our product."  

It never moves beyond marketing. 

(The one attempt I've seen was by PS Audio...but their attempt to rebut Amir by showing how they would measure their product flopped pretty badly)."

This is such an important point that it's worth repeating.

No manufacturer would sit idly by and ignore criticism of their products if they believed it was unsupported.

Not a single one.

The financially ruinous consequences for any reviewer, of wrongly criticizing any product shouldn't need explaining here, should they?

There are many good reasons why reviewers so rarely criticize products, but the most important one is that they do not want to get sued.

Without evidence critical reviews are little more than allegations, which if successfully challenged can be financially disastrous to the person making them.

ASR deals in factual evidence as determined by state of the art measuring equipment.

ASR are also not alone in employing this approach and that is something we should be grateful for if we want anything more than watered down flattery that passes for most reviews these days.

The days of entirely subjective, or if you prefer, entirely fictional reviews finally seem to be coming to an end, and it's difficult to ever see them returning.

"You are not supposed to post anything on how something sounds unless you have proof to back it up". How can you "prove" how anything "sounds" without listening to it?