Powered speakers show audiophiles are confused

brianlucey
You are confused, it doesn’t matter how many records you have worked on. My position is not that I have great speakers in my Atmos system it's that they are accurate and industry standard I don’t want them to sound amazing as you have said. You are also confused in that I’m criticizing audiophiles in terms of my Genelec speakers audiophiles and Genelecs are all together different they don’t run in my 2 channel system.

As for now audiophiles don’t think multi speaker systems like Atmos are actually audiophile this will probably change in the future but not yet. You have a successful room but you are full of it, you don’t even have matched speakers you mix tube amps and SS then you have several AD transitions to Protools even though you say you are all analog, Impressive to a 25 year old producer who loves to see your super cool main speakers but has more money than technical chops. I know I’ve been there, I’ve done that and finished the game ahead, nothing wrong with it but don’t try to fool people who have already been around the block.

@donavabdear interesting how this takes us right back to the topic of this thread, active speakers and confusion. In @brianlucey video he states that his entire mastering system is a chain. Change one thing, you change the entire chain. For professionals with budget and trained hearing, that’s fine. For consumers, that’s expensive, possibly real expensive to put a good, cohesive "chain" together as each mismatch needs to be traded, swapped, or sold.

With an active speaker you trade off the ability to "tune" the speakers with variables like the amp and speaker cables. In return, you get a coherent, cohesive "chain" that is portable and replicable. It takes a LOT of the variables that make up the chain out of the hands of a consumer and puts them in the hands of the engineer who spent HIS budget and time putting together a cohesive "chain" (cabinet, amps, crossover, drivers, even the connections on the plate amp in the back of the speaker).

If I want to "tune" my active speakers because of how I place them in the room I have contour knobs, a volume knob, and a high pass filter on the back (see the pic of the controls on the back in my system page). That is common in an active speaker, you don’t get it in a passive speaker and I can dial those contour knobs to the exact degree I want them and they are FREE to fiddle with, unlike swapping out speaker cables.

I saw an interview of recording engineer John Traunwieser where he traded out his B&W monitors for Meyers because the B&W’s sounded too good. They made every mix sound good BECAUSE of the speakers strengths but that didn’t always translate to different speakers. To your point if device (amp/speaker) etc colors the sound in such a way it might not translate the same on another system.

In a way its fortunate that the straight forward path on this journey is laid out with published specs. Specs for a relatively flat speaker, dolby specs on where to place them, specs for treating and calibrating your room, even specs for reference volume levels. As long as you don’t stray too far from the path the specs lay out you can get a good result for decent money.

BTW, if anyone reading this wants the specs for setting up a room and system for Atmos come visit my thread here:

kota1, yours is an extensive system.

I'm confused by which components provide the analog stereo?

Oddly, I'm writing this from the parking lot of the Heinz St. Berkeley Bowl just across the street from Meyer Sound Labs.

@m-db, OMG I was just on Meyers website before posting this...fate!

Good question about the analog signal path. I have two options.

One is to use the Marantz "Pure Direct" pass through on my processor. Is it "pure" analog? No, but it is another option if I am using an analog input on the processor. According to Marantz:

The Pure Direct Mode is passed through the tone circuit/AD Converter/DA converter/DSP include Audyssey processing for Analog input.
In addition, stop the video and the display.

Now my second option is to run a separate preamp. The active speakers I use have both XLR and RCA inputs on the back with a toggle switch. I have tried using a separate Parasound all analog preamp (Zpre) I have connected to the RCA inputs. I liked it but it wasn’t necessarily better.

FYI, Meyers Sound article on why go active:

Why Self-Powered?

Self-powered loudspeakers offer several advantages over their passive counterparts when it comes to fidelity, reliability, and simplicity. The great part is, you’ll start to reap the benefits of a self-powered system before you even power up.

Ease of deployment: System set-up is so much easier when you have fewer components and fewer cables to worry about being miswired. Since self-powered loudspeakers incorporate amplification, you’ll never have to deal with matching speakers to amplifiers or connecting components. You don’t have to worry about calibration of gain and crossover setting which means more time focusing on the show. Eliminating amp racks doesn’t just streamline system deployment, it streamlines your inventory whether you’re a rental house or a road warrior. And when you consider that the average amp rack weighs nearly 300 pounds and takes up four feet of truck space, the efficiencies get even clearer. Let alone when you want to fly the amplifier racks to get closer to the speakers, often requiring more rigging points and more motors.

Predictable, reliable operation: Internal amplification is closely matched to drivers. Because individual components have been optimized during manufacturing, you can expect consistent sound from show to show. Built-in, factory-optimized protection circuitry provides extra assurance without degrading signal quality. And, when you have less equipment, you have less risk of failure.

Better frequency and phase response: Because self-powered loudspeakers incorporate sophisticated processing, they are calibrated to exhibit optimal response curves in key performance parameters. Active crossovers are more precise, sophisticated designs, and bi-amped systems are time aligned, eliminating phase issues. The result? Accurate sound throughout the speaker’s range, at any volume level.

Unparalleled clarity: In powered monitors, internal amplifiers are precision-matched to drivers, delivering optimal power at all times for cleaner sound. And because amps are built into loudspeaker cabinets, there’s no need for long lengths of connecting cable, which can become prone to distortion and signal loss.

Tighter transients: Since self-powered loudspeakers have very short internal cables, amps inside can more effectively dampen driver mechanical motion, which leads to better sonic accuracy and tighter, crisper transients. (And, there’s none of the loss in levels and signal quality inherent over long cable distances.)

Certified Safe: Nothing matters more than the safety of your staff and customers. Because self-powered loudspeakers incorporate amplification, they must undergo rigorous testing by Underwriters Laboratories and other international organizations to ensure they operate safely and guard against the risk of fire, electric shock, and inadequate structural design. Enjoy peace of mind knowing Meyer Sound powered products are certified by FCC, UL, CSA, CE, and CEE the most stringent agencies in the business.

The Problems with Passive

What about passive loudspeakers? At first glance, passive systems may seem like a bargain. But we already know that passive systems require more components and accessories than powered systems. Sonically, they exhibit potential for signal loss over distances, and it is very hard to ensure consistent, optimal sound and volume as amplifiers have many variables to consider when being matched to loudspeakers, such as cable lengths and gauge as well as the number of speakers connected to the amplifier.

Passive systems are often touted as easy to service. But because powered loudspeakers are so complex to design and build, self-powered loudspeakers usually represent the top innovations from leading manufacturers. Better quality translates to better reliability, which means fewer maintenance issues in the long run.

At face value, passive systems might seem less expensive and easier to maintain. But once you start adding in amps, cables, and other components not to mention increased transport and labor costs you’ll find that those savings just don’t add up to a better value.