Powered speakers show audiophiles are confused

@vinylvalet , if you have time can you please post your virtual system so we can check it out? Sounds great. This thread has a few audio experts with studio or manufacturing experience participating like yourself, has been quite an eye (ear) opener so far. Thanks

Interesting that the 2 top threads in the Speaker category both started with trolling posts.

@secretguy Honest question do you feel like audiophiles should demand accurate designs in a synergistic way or do you feel it is more important to having "fun" with putting together systems at random not designed for each other.

@kota1 , Now those Avant Guard Horns are the first packaged speaker system I would not mind hearing. I did not know they had done that yet. It is still a point source system but at least it is directional (less room interaction.) I bet we can all afford them :-)  

I have been to probably over 50 stadium concerts. They use line arrays because they are acoustically much more powerful not because they cast a better image. There is no image at these concerts and distortion from a number of factors is very high. The Absolute Sound is not the goal.  Home HiFi is a totally different application. Line arrays or line sources are still more powerful but they broadcast a larger more life like image with greater depth. ESLs are renown for being....polite shall we say. They are not known for being power houses and many of them can not achieve realistic levels. Turn them into a full range line source, take the lowest three octaves away from them (subwoofer) and use the right amp they then become a totally different animal. They become as dynamic and as powerful as horns up to 105 dB. Ultimately they loose out to horns and the better dynamic drivers which can make it up to 115 dB (twice as loud!) My loudest listening level is 95 dB. Anything louder will certainly damage your hearing.  Within their capability, because they are line sources the sound is more powerful, dynamic yet delicate and detailed. Because line source linear arrays are perfectly directional they reduce room interaction better than any other type of speaker. Room interaction is distortion and it can not be managed with just DSP. Digital has its limits. 0 dBFS is a hard barrier and lowering volume levels decreases the number of bits available. With the faster processors we have now running at high rates this is much less of a problem but 0dBFS remains a hard barrier. The kind of deviations you see in the bass in residential rooms frequently require 10 to 15 dB corrections that can bump into the 0 dBFS barrier or/and push many amps into clipping. You have to try to keep the deviations under 5 dB with acoustic management then DSP can handle the rest. You still need a power house of an amp for the subwoofers and efficient subs is not a bad idea. 

I am not disagreeing with the basic idea of an active loudspeaker system. In essence I have had one for 25 years. I use all the same tech used in active systems and have much more control over what it does. My new processor will have a complete digital 4 way crossover, bass management, room control and high resolution equalizing capability. Check it out. DEXQ Pre 8.   https://www.deqx.com/products/  I can choose amps specifically for the type of driver and frequencies it has to cover. I can chose the quality I can afford. They are right under the speakers keeping speaker wires very short. I use only Kimber Kable 12tc. My subs are wired internally with 12tc.

@donavabdear , I totally agree with everything you said, but I am very particular and want to do the designing myself. Manufactures have to survive by selling their product by making a profit and keeping the cost of the product competitive with what their market demands. They tend to cut costs where you can't see it. With audiophile products it is really weird because many of us think if it costs more it must be better. In many instances prices are inflated for that reason alone and I had one manufacturer of cartridges admit that to my face!

There are many roads to Rome. Our expectations might also be different. I will probably never use anything but a stereo system, a 2.2 system. IMHO and from what I have heard adding more channels just confuses the issue and adds more distortion. At one point I though of adding rear speakers with adjustable delays to replicate the echo of large venues but I decided not to. I have other sonic priorities. 

1. Each driver is optimized by its own amp
2. Better transient response
3. Amp dampens the voice coil perfectly
4. Amps designed for impedance of the driver
5. Amp is directly connected to the driver
6. No loss between amp and driver
7. No crossovers after the amp
8. No speaker level crossover design problems
9.  

• These are all essentially related so I will address as one unit.
• Yes, the amplifier can be optimized to some degree, but for most active speakers, it is just an integrated solution of external boxes and moving the crossover. That is 1^st/2^nd generation active speaker design. Next generation designs employ more sophisticated amplification electronics that cannot be replicated by a simple external voltage amplifier and never with a passive crossover.
• Missing from this discussion is not only can the amplifier be optimizing, but the driver that is used in an active design can be optimized for an active configuration. Drivers today are designed to be linear with voltage drive. That is not ideal for optimum performance but does make passive crossovers easier to design and performance more consistent.
• A basic connection of the amplifier to the driver does not damp the voice coil perfectly. The resistance and inductance of the voice coil prevents that in a basic voltage drive implementation

9. More accurate than random amp / driver combos

• I would not say that is an inherent advantage as most amplifiers will drive a speaker accurately when that amplifier behaves as a voltage source. The accuracy comes from the tight integration.

10. No speaker cables

• Not touching that one

11. Amps designed for proper power handling of driver
12. Amps are more efficient designed for a smaller power window
13. Amps can be up to ½ the power (lest cost more reliability)

• These are true to a point, but we also have multiple amplifiers, potentially increasing standby power. Do we have 1 power supply, multiple? Does it matter?
• I don’t think it is the amp designed for power handling of the driver, but the amplifier knowing the power handling of the driver and can henceforth ensure it is protected from damage.