Cryogenic Tubes - Time for a Change

"Since tubes are composed of various materials, all of which expand and contract at different rates, one might think that cryo-treating tubes may cause micro cracks, fissures, or gaps where two or more materials meet, causing deleterious effects on the sound and possibly the longevity of the tubes. How does your process address these effects?"

@69zoso69  I bet they’re going to say they control this by cooling VERY GRADUALLY, and SLOWLY over time (several days?), and that their totally proprietary, patent-pending (lol) process is better than any competitors because <fill in the blank, but expect some aerospace credentials to be flashed>.

That said, I agree it’s a very good question, and no amount of "we just do it really slowly" is going to 100% assuage all doubts. The reality is they’ll probably test & match again AFTER the cryo process, which will screen out tubes that might have been negatively affected by the process.

Anyways, just to reiterate I made my own determination over many years' of tube purchases, and I no longer seek to purchase cryo-treated tubes. 

Years ago, after contacting and then receiving the reply below from 2 NASA scientists I decided to send my endpins for cello off to be cryo,'d. At first, I sent only the removable coupling tip from the rods. After treatment these tips were sent to members of the Cincinnati Orchestra for comparison and confirmation as they had purchased endpins from me a couple months prior that were untreated. They tried them and one member stated that whatever you just did please continue. The result was better sound with easier and faster string play. After that I send all elements and contents of the endpin to the lab to be treated. Some parts as small as 0.011 in diameter. 

Here is the post from years ago.

theaudiotweak

2,715 posts

11-14-2005 at 08:21pm 

This is an e-mail I received in response to questions I had after much heated discussion to the benefits and effects of cryogenic treatment here on Audiogon, this was in 2002.My inquiry was originally to a Dr. Louis Salerno at NASA. As I found out later Dr.Barron who most graciously sent this reply and is considered the leading authority on cryogenics in the United States.  Tom

Dear Mr. DeVuono:
November 23,2002
In your e-mail to Dr. Salerno (which was forwarded to the Cryogenic
Society of America office), you had asked about the effect of cryogenic
treatment on electrical conductors, such as copper, silver, and gold.

In general, the cryogenic treatment has a permanent effect (there is
no change in the wear properties with time), unless the part is heated up
into the annealing temperature range for the material. Properly heat
treated materials will maintain the effect of cryogenic treatment until the
material is heated into the annealing temperature range. The cryogenic
treatment produces a change throughout the bulk of the material, and not
just at the surface, also.

We have conducted experimental tests on lathe tool materials
(generally, high-alloy steels), in which we conducted wear tests for
samples subjected to various "on-the-shelf times" ranging from one day to
60 days, and we found no statistically significant change in the material
wear properties.

I trust this information will be of help.

Sincerely yours,

Randall F. Barron,PH.D
Professor Emeritus
Mechanical Engineering
Louisiana Tech University
Ruston, Louisiana U.S.A.
 

Jump ahead today.

Today I received a box of materials back from the cryo lab and when I spoke to David about the treatment of tubes, he offered up that it takes nearly 12 hours longer to safely treat the tubes than other materials. If you don't follow a careful sequence of temperature control moving slowly down and then backup, they can fracture.

David said he treated a tube belonging to a singer songwriter who lived nearby. This tube was from the musicians' microphone used in his home recording studio, 
demos he makes which are then sent to LA for editing. The engineers at the studio said they heard a noticeable improvement in fidelity in the recordings sent after the cryogenic treatment. The musician songwriter co-wrote 5 songs for the movie Top Gun.  Tom

There were 5 songs in Top Gun??

5 that he had a hand in writing and composing for the movie. Tom

Four EL34's arrived on my doorstep yesterday morning. Christmas came early this year.

Based on many people's comments on this thread, describing their experience of cryogenic tubes as a waste of money, clever advertising, and providing no measurable improvement over their stock tubes, I was simply hoping the CryoTone tubes were not that obviously inferior to the upgraded Psvane tubes I originally purchased with the amp (Willsenton R8).

I spent about 4 hours listening to them in my system yesterday and 5 hours today. I can say without any reservation this was money well spent.

The difference between the old tubes and the new cro'd tubes is not huge, not it's not small either. It was about 2 minutes in that I realized I was hearing something different. It took another 2 minutes to figure out what the difference was. I noticed textures were more vivid with more nuance. Further listening revealed improved micro details. Details that reside deep in the mix are now more articulate. At the extremes, small almost imperceptible "pop" sounds on electronic tracks, like static from old records take on more character. Some of these "pops" now render themselves as wet, or dry, some have bloom and decay where they used to come and go without adding much to the presentation. I guess what I'm saying is I'm hearing deeper into the music.

When comparing old gear to new gear, we often "listen harder" to the new gear because we are naturally biased and are listening so intently that we can't help but pick up on differences and interpret these differences as improvements. While that may be true I have listened to some of these tracks hundreds of times, if not thousands, and I'm 100% confident I've not heard what I'm hearing now. 

I asked my wife, who's not a critical listener what she thinks and she said "the music sounds cleaner". 

I hate to put a number to it, because that just doesn't do justice to the overall change to my system, and i's always going to be subjective. But what I'm enjoying now is at least a 10-12 percent more vivid and colorful presentation. 

Not all cryogenic offerings are the same. Like a lot of tech in this hobby it's all about the alchemy, the synergy of small differences that make music more enjoyable. 

To those that have reservations about measurable differences of cryogenic treated tubes, I recommend watching Decware''s video on CryoTone.

As to the manufacturer's claims about longer life I'd take that with a grain of salt.