I used the Neutrik brand adapters a few times and never had an issue.
Help and Advice Needed: Cary Audio SLP-05 Preamp RMA Disaster
First, I want to thank everyone. This forum has been one of the best sources for information about gear, and I have used it extensively for years.
I am in need of help and advice on how to proceed from here.
The preamp is a Cary Audio SLP-05 Ultimate w/ Kimber Kable Upgrades.
Does anyone have an issue with the volume on their SLP-05 not fully muting when the knob (not mute button) is turned to zero, and do they have significant crosstalk between the channels?
This is only with XLR in and XLR out.
In particular, I would like to hear from people with DAC's with a rated voltage of 4.5V or more on XLR. This is about every high end DAC like the Holo, Chord, Auralic, and even Cary offerings, as well as DACs from Matrix, and other entry level high-end DAC's
My Gear:
i9 based server running HQPlayer Embedded and Roon Core.
Sonore Optical Rendu, Holo May KTE DAC, Manley Snapper Monoblocks, 6Pi Cornerhorns.
The story is a bit long,
so here is a TLDR;
My SLP-05 preamp does not mute when the volume is turned to zero (mute button works fine), and has significant cross talk between channels. I can input a 1KHz test tone into the LEFT channel (not other inputs), and hear it clearly from the RIGHT channel with the volume turned to zero.
Here is an unlisted video that I sent to Cary demonstrating the problem.
Cary is claiming the issue is my gear. First, they claimed my amps have too much gain (it has less than the Cary amps), and too many watts (watts?!?), then my speakers are too sensitive (102dB). They finally fixated on my Holo May DAC having too much voltage at 5.8V on balanced (the Cary is rated at +/-3V, or 6V). They remained fixated on this even though I provided the above video using the Matrix DAC which is rated at 4.5V.
I measured the voltage coming out of the Matrix DAC as shown in the video at
|
|
pin1-pin2 |
pin1-pin3 |
pin2-pin3 |
|
Matrix DAC LEFT |
1.085V |
1.084V |
2.170V |
|
Matrix DAC RIGHT |
1.083V |
1.081V |
2.164V |
which is very close to what they claim is "standard."
Cary is being resolute in stating that they have sold thousands of these preamps, never had this problem, and my case is unique. It seems I am the only owner of a Holo May (or Chord, or Auralic, or...) and an SLP-05...
Advice needed:
Cary is proposing modifying the preamp as follows:
1) Relocate a capacitor that is getting charged via the ground plane near the input buffer tube, and isolate the input buffer ground.
2) Tie the floating XLR neutrals to ground at the relays (this will short the inputs when an input is not selected).
3) Add a 5:1 voltage divider across the input for XLR 1, and RCA 1 to reduce the inputs from 5V to 1V. I do not know what they propose to use for the ground reference here.
I would like some feedback on these mods. I think some of these are pretty questionable. Why tie the relays directly to ground when it might be better to tie them through a 1M resistor? Tying the XLR neutral to ground seems like an invitation for common mode distortion and might prevent the circuit from being fully differential.
Moving the cap seems fine, but it does not address the core issue - why are we having ground plane issues in the first place?
----------------------
The story as briefly as possible
I want to be clear up front, that I never engaged in raging, yelling or name calling, I never made any demands other than "you have to make this right." I did express myself as being "very upset and angry," and in a later email, "Please understand that my trust is pretty much gone at this point."
I RMA'd my 2 week old SLP-05 because the volume would not fully mute with the volume control (mute button works fine). While they had it, I paid ($250.00 + $250.00 shipping) for the gain reduction mod.
They could not find anything wrong performed the gain reduction mod, and sent the preamp back to me.
When I powered on the preamp, it was DOA. It turned out FedEx dropped it hard enough to knock the rectifier tube loose, and break the straps holding the big power capacitor down.
I found the gain reduction had no effect that I could determine, it is too loud at 10:00, and almost impossible to adjust to a low listening level.
I found the signal still bleed through at zero volume, and I found that the left channel bled through to the right channel.
What ensued was a steady stream of what can only be called BS (or "nonsense" as I referred to in my emails) with the Quality Service Manager. When it became clear that not only was I being not being listened to and there was a lot of CYA going on, I called and asked for the contact info of someone in authority to monitor the situation. I was given the email of the owner, who it turned out was never told about the shipping damage. I was finally issued an RMA 3 weeks after getting my preamp back.
They once again could not find anything wrong.
I had to actually write out an experimental plan for them to duplicate the issue.
As far as I know, they did not test another preamp with or with out the upgrades to see if the issue is unique to my unit or not.
It is clear to me that Cary does not want to know if there is a problem.
I am at a near loss as to how to proceed from here, and I could really use any input you good folks could provide.
Thanks you,
-Josh
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- 46 posts total
@avanti1960, looks like your scenario is a little bit different from mine. From what I read on your post (excuse me if I misread), it sounds like you were going from an XLR output of your preamp and adapted that to a RCA input of your power amp. In your case you placed your XLR to RCA adapter on the receiving end of your XLR cable. In my case, I was going from a RCA output from my source and adapted that to an XLR input of my preamp. So I placed a RCA to XLR adapter on the source end of my XLR cable. Anyway, I'm not an expert in this stuff. I was simply sharing my experience. Cheers! |
One of the nice things about the SLP-05 is that it will convert RCA to XLR or vice versa internally with out issue, and was one of the many reasons this amp appealed to me. After much debate, I requested a refund. The owner proposed a dollar amount that I consider fair. This was complicated a bit by the fact that they gave me more than my trade in was probably worth, and sold it for less than they gave me for it.
I reached this decision based on several things: My interaction with the Quality Service Manager is probably the worst customer service experience I have ever had. Not only was he willing to say things to me that are simply wrong, he is unable to listen to a customers concerns and address them. Having owned business' in the past, I can say I would find another role for this person or simply fire him. He is damaging Cary's brand every time he opens his mouth. Because of these interactions, my trust with Cary is nil. If I am going to pony up nearly $10K, I expect to not have trust issues. During the 3 weeks it was here before it got sent back a second time, every time I would turn it on, my pleasure was always tempered by anger and frustration. This is simply not the way to "enjoy the music." I suppose it is also not a good fit, tho I didn't really have here long enough to really know. in total, it was here for about 2 weeks before the first RMA, and about 3 weeks before the second RMA over a period starting Aug. 12 and ending Dec. 14 when I requested a refund. During that same time, my lab submitted 2 grants, and 5 papers for publication of which I was first author on 1 and co-author of the rest. So not only did I not have as much time to enjoy the music as I would wish, those times I needed to enjoy the music where greatly diminished.
So, now I in the market for a new preamp. Must be balanced. Must have remote volume. cost about $10K or less. I prefer having a HT bypass. I welcome any suggestions, tho I will probably start a fresh "need preamp advice thread" thread when I get back from vacation.
I will be gone til after Christmas, so I will reply to any comments then.
I want to once again thank all of you for all the thoughtful, useful, and enlightening comments. As I said before, in the 30ish years I have been using the internet, this forum is one of the best in terms of quality of people and information.
-Josh |
@joshua43214 , I am sorry to her that this did not ultimately work out for you. Believe it or not, Cary used to provide great tech support. I remember back in the ’90s (the Dennis Had days) they had this wonderful guy, Kirk Owens, and it didn’t matter how simple or how stupid my question was, he was always patient and provided an answer/solution and I didn’t have to email him to get it. For what it was worth, that is what made me a fan of Cary and a repeat customer. I had an issue a few years back with my old Cary V-12 and all I could get from Cary was an email saying to send them the amp & what their shop fees were. I wound up troubleshooting it & repairing it myself with help from a member of Audio Asylum who was generous with his time & knowledge, and it turned out that all I needed to do was replace a bad cap.
And I can totally understand that. I used to have a pair of ARC VTM120s & one or the other would blow a grid resistor on start up often enough that I kept a bunch on hand & I used to grit my teeth & cross my fingers when ever I flipped the switches on them. They sounded great, but that lack of reliability ruined enough listening sessions that I wound up buying the Cary V-12 & selling the ARCs. Anyway, I currently am running a preowned SLP-05 in front of the v-12 and so far/so good but I am keeping my fingers crossed. I had to think twice before I bought it. I wish you well on your quest for a new preamp.
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Really glad you shared your experience. Now I am hesitating to deal with Cary Audio’s after sales support. I left a voice message on the Cary Direct sales number, but they never called back. It is absurd that they dont have a return policy if you select their factory upgrades (per the website)! Couple Qs: 1- Am also concerned if my setup will need additional attenuator with SLP-05. My Terminator DAC has an o/p 4.6Vrms on the XLR. My power amp has a 29 DB gain. Speaker sensitivity is 88db. 2- Have you found an alternative to SLP05 ? I have similar requirements (balanced, remote, tube, ideally 6sn7) |
- 46 posts total