SUT - electrical theory and practical experience

Dear @lewm  : "  I doubt any of us can hear the difference between 21 usec (high value for MC alone) and 23 usec (low value for MM. "

I always said the main characteristic of live MUSIC that can't be achieved by any room/system is: transient response, its speed. At the same time I posted several times that transient response in a room/system is mainly what makes the differences between different room/systems and between cartridges.

I posted what the electret cartridge manufacturer said on that critical subject:

" Response speed is general refered as transiente time and transient time is the figure of merit in comparison the ability of the cartridge to reproduce the instantaneous changes of MUSIC. ..........................................Musical sounds are transients by nature. ............................................These measurements of cartridge circuit are of great significance to the user and illustrate why the cartridge's electrical output network has such a profound effect on the overall performance of the playback . "

In your statement I think that some audiophiles can discern between those 3 micro seconds difference and that could says why gentlemans with a very high quality and resolution level systems are in favor of LOMC vs MM/MI cartridges.

In my today quality and resolution level room/system I'm aware of that kind of differences between a LOMC and a MM cartridges. Even through my fine tunning time over the last 2-3 years ( maybe a little more. ) the quality performance levels between MC and MM more and more were nearer and nearer in between and today if with your blind eyes you listen in my system a MM cartridge you can´t know if it's a MM or LOMC one. Differences as so tiny that you really need to know for sure what to look for to distinguish in between. Yes, color is a little different, to little.

I can say today that in any good room/system as nearer the quality performance level is between MM and MC as better your system overall quality performance levels.

The critical importance of transiente response/speed/rise time is obvious in the Lyra example I posted where reviewers and the majority of cartridge owners prefer by a tiny margin the Etna/Atlas SL versions vs its higher output models. I experienced that with the Kleos and Kleos SL.. Yes, the SL are a little faster with better transient response and this is what makes the difference because both cartridges have the same design and tested in the same room/system.

I know there are no measurements behind that ( or maybe are and I just don't know. ) but all those evidence are or could be in some ways facts to take in count when we are talking of the transient response importance in the whole quality performance of any room/system.

Maybe you have a way different opinion, that's mine.

R.

Not proclaiming to be any expert, but when discussing 'rise time' the traditional engineering parameter s 'slew-rate' dvt/dt = X-volts/micro-sec.  And once you are talking about slew-rate there is some pretty established science associated with it such as that described in the following recognizing that the 'amplifier" gain (be it SUT+tubes or solid state) has an effect and that to produce a specific frequency there is a minimum 'slew rate'.

Slew Rate: What is it? (Formula, Units & How To Measure It) | Electrical4U

AN-346 High-Performance Audio Applications of The LM833 (Rev. D)

Phono Preamp Project - Graham Slee Audio Forum | HiFi System Components - Page 2

And in the Texas Instruments document there is this paragraph:  

"In addition to the amplitude response errors (which can be made small through careful design), the lack of a continued rolloff can cause distortion in later stages of the audio system by allowing high frequency signals from the pickup cartridge to pass through the phono equalizer without sufficient attenuation. This is generally not a problem with moving magnet cartridges, since they are usually severely band-limited above 20 kHz due to the electrical resonance of cartridge inductance and preamp input capacitance. Moving coil cartridges, however, have very low inductance, and can produce significant output at frequencies as high as 150 kHz. If a subsequent preamplifier stage or power amplifier suffers from distortion caused by slew-rate limitations, these ultrasonic signals can cause distortion of the audio signal even though the signals actually causing the distortion are inaudible."

Dear @antinn  : Those LM op-amps came from now defunct National but the best bi-polar discrete dual is the MAT 02/03 that today were substitute by similar part by Analog Devices, that's not an op-amp. I know very well because Levinson used at its amplifier reference input boards.

Now, that theory/science in your links forgot that MM cartridges are not " severely limited " in frequency, we have several MM cartridges with flat response out of 100khz as Technics, Empire, Audio Technica, Signet, ADC, Azden and many others to mention here.

It's true that the S could distort ( inaudible. ) the cartridge signal if the designer does not takes in count that " science "

The phonolinepreamp in my system has a bandwindth over 1.5Mhz with 350 V/mseg but was designed with out any of those " troubles ".

Anyway, thank's for the links, very informative. We are waiting for the Holmz measures about.

R.

In any case what's false  is what you posted because I gave several evidences/facts/measures and in the 99% of those threads you was there and you never never proved with measurements that I was wrong, never ever.

bla bla bla... I see now that you have moved from giving 'proof' to providing 'evidence'. Gotta keep your story straight...

@atmasphere 

I find it quite incredible how many people on A‘gon indulge in absolutist and arrogant language without any knowledge basis for their argument. Don‘t be discouraged by them, your contributions are always well founded and instructive. Thanks for that.