2. cables
  3. 181727-20253

Are cables additive or subtractive?

There’s lots of debates here about the effectiveness of cables. Let’s please keep that elsewhere so we can have a DIFFERENT discussion about cables.

Let’s assume for argument’s sake that yes, cables make a difference and that it’s worth paying for that difference.

Lets assume that is true, then lets ask the question:

  • Do cables ADD or SUBTRACT from the signal?

Again, for this thread, assume cables change something audible.

What do you think and what are your experiences?

Also, let's try to avoid sweeping generalities and try to focus on what happens along this axis:  Subtraction or addition.

erik_squires
the-audiophile-barista
32 posts
 

My 2 cents:

Cables can’t add more or ‘better’ information than is in the original signal (cd, LP, high rez file, master tape), so cables can only ‘contaminate’ the original signal. 

If we call the original music signal “100%” and you replace a cable that only gives you 70% (of the original 100%) for one that gives you 90%, it will sound 20% better, but it did not become 120%.

jasonbourne52's avatar
jasonbourne52
2,863 posts
 

Back in the Days of Yore (early 80’s) Audioquest sent an IC comparator to their dealers for customers to try. This was a passive device with two pairs of inputs and one pair of outputs, with a rotary switch on top to select pairs of IC A or pairs of IC B. The comparator was connected between a preamp and an amp by a pair of IC C - which could be the same as either A or B. So totally passive with a single switch in the signal path after the preamp. This allowed instant listening to either IC A or B. Audioquest soon withdrew their comparator because nobody could tell A or B apart. I tried it myself and could hear no difference between two pairs of ICs from different mfgrs.

jasonbourne52's avatar
jasonbourne52
2,863 posts
 

The Audioquest comparator box was an embarrassment to them because it proved that all ICs sound alike - that ICs neither add nor subtract anything to a music signal! That's why I remain an IC atheist after trying the comparator!

jasonbourne52's avatar
jasonbourne52
2,863 posts
 

All you believers in IC "sound" should build a simple comparator box and do the test! 

erik_squires OP
15,826 posts
 

I wanted to let this conversation go before I spoke about my own experiences.

In all cases I’ve heard differences, and even done single-blind testing with others, the sound has been subtractive.

For IC’s, the most "effective" cables rolled off the high end considerably.

For speakers, that roll off actually contributed to better imaging, but at significant cost to the overall energy in the speaker cables. So, on the one hand, subtracting energy, on the other hand improving imaging, so we could almost call that additive, but my fellow listeners did not like that tradeoff.

My own experiences have turned me to solid silver IC’s and Mogami speaker cables.

More to discover