Powered speakers show audiophiles are confused

@thespeakerdude wrote:

Audiophiles like to use the word transparency. At moderate listening levels, the speaker will always be least transparent part perhaps with the exception of a turntable. No external amplifier that is not designed to interact with and drive one specific driver, in one specific configuration, can achieve the transparency of an application specific amplification.

As they say: are you gonna balk all day, little dog, or are you gonna bite? That's just quoting to my immediate recollection of the completeness of this saying, so nothing really implied wrt. "little dog" as such, but being you and a few others here are so much into this intricate amp-driver match, so much so indeed that it would seem you're loosing sight of the forest for the trees (while smelling some bull as well), why don't you name me a few brands/models of active, bundled speakers that adhere in some fitting form to your strict standards here, and I'll attempt to seek them out to the best of my abilities as brand/model availability allows locally, and give them a thorough listen. Others around here would have the same opportunity also, and hear for themselves what all this is supposedly about. I know, you're apparently affiliated with a manufacturer yourself - alas, one you can't reveal - but maybe you could "hide" your own representative among a selection of, say, 4-5 brands/models, and I might be lucky to catch it of the bunch in random fashion. If nothing else I might be able to listen to just on of them and assess for myself what this claimed über amp-driver match transparency trait is all about (maybe I have made this encounter already without knowing it, and I didn't really make a thing of it either way), and if it moves mountains in the whole scheme of things combined with their overall design and implementation. 

To me you're just hiding behind it all, making the claims you do. Give us something to go by, or it's just hot air. I believe we agree on much more than what would seem, but this whole esoterically-laden secret-sauce amp-driver match baloney grew old a long time ago in your efforts to lessen the advantages of active if it isn't per your approach. What's there for all to see however, if they went at it themselves, is that getting rid of the passive cross-over for amp-driver direct-control is the major boon in itself and the meat and potatoes of active configuration. You go outboard active there are several aspects in dedication between amps and drivers that can be made, not least to ones own taste, and you have carte blanche wrt. the drivers, speaker design and size you want couple it with, along with the remaining gear. Forest for the trees, my friends..

@phusis ,

How would you listen for transparency? What does it sound like? Have you heard it before? Do you know what relative distortion sounds like in a speaker over any given frequency range? at a particular sound intensity? What would you use to listen for it? Do you know the pedigree of that recording and the signal / processing chain to know the level of transparency from the time the sound was created till it comes off the recording medium?

this whole esoterically-laden secret-sauce amp-driver match baloney

When you understand the intricacies of driving a traditional dynamic driver or AMT in the most linear possible fashion, at all signal levels, with complex waveforms, perhaps your attitude will be warranted.

Isn't the bulk of amp/driver "match" really about coordinating [the same] dynamic range of each section of a complete system?    I mean an active system cannot be considered high end if it clips its HF amp on the tweeter before the LF amp clips on its LF driver.  This is the most basic of requirements, yes?  The same rules apply to a full multi way active PA system, yes? 

There has been little talk of dynamics with active, but that is where one of the larger benefits occurs.  The level of LF demand on an amplifier is often underestimated, yielding a negative result for a HF device on a single way [passive full range] system. 

Brad 

@lonemountain,

@phusis , and probably most people's concept of amplifier/driver is a simple linear voltage based amplifier perhaps with some frequency response modification. Without writing a book, that is a traditional view that is not the future of active speakers. Even active subwoofer drivers with velocity/position feedback already break that mold.

There is no set "ratio" between the LF and HF peak in any given set of music, though practically, the peaks are significantly more at the lowest frequencies. However, you can soft clip bass while preserving mids and highs unclipped and achieve a speaker that is considered more flexible, i.e. able to play louder while being perceived as still sounding good. However, that is a "club" driven too loud situation, not a professional setup where you ensure the system is not clipping with the music you are using.

Isn't the bulk of amp/driver "match" really about coordinating [the same] dynamic range of each section of a complete system?    I mean an active system cannot be considered high end if it clips its HF amp on the tweeter before the LF amp clips on its LF driver.  This is the most basic of requirements, yes?  The same rules apply to a full multi way active PA system, yes?

If we assume that the HF component is riding on top of the LF swells then the HF always clips before the LF in a passive system.

Most tweeter in a box behind a crossover are more sensitive than the woofers and need to be padded down ~10dB, which further points to the HF needing very little power.

It would take some skill to design an active system which clips the HF before the LF. Maybe using a 1W SET on some inefficient tweeters, and a kilowatt amp on the woofers could get one close… But I sort of doubt it. It would take a lot of work.