Powered speakers show audiophiles are confused


17 of 23 speakers in my studio and home theater systems are internally powered. My studio system is all Genelec and sounds very accurate. I know the best new concert and studio speakers are internally powered there are great technical reasons to design a speaker and an amp synergistically, this concept is much more important to sound quality than the vibration systems we often buy. How can an audiophile justify a vibration system of any sort with this in mind.

128x128donavabdear

@thespeakerdude

See this thread for more info, it is a long thread but thoroughly covers that website and amir participated and presented his take on things:

 

I can only assume @kota1 , that by whack job you mean Amir at audio science? Do you feel you are in a position of knowledge or experience to make that conclusion.

 

The BS that AES75 recognizes and attempts to address is that you need verifiable standards, not some whack job with a volt meter measuring stuff in his thread bare living room:

It did not take long to figure out that audio science is using a Klippel for speaker measurements. This is hardly a volt meter, and represents the state of the art in audio measurement. I think he runs it in his garage, but it almost does not matter as long as you have enough space. The point of the Klippel is that it does not need an anechoic space or treated room to measure accurately. It is a great tool, though a bit slow as a development tool. The Klippel will export a CEA2034 compliant test report. That is a far more extensive test standard than AES75. The reports that audio science publishes are from within the CEA2034 measurement set and appear to cover most of it. CEA2034 would also be considered "independently verifiable", as it sets out the full test standard, methods of test, equipment requirements, reporting, etc.

 

CEA2034: Standard Method of Measurement for In-Home Loudspeakers

This standard describes how to determine the frequency response, directivity and maximum output capability of a residential loudspeaker. It is intended to determine the audio performance of a loudspeaker, not the loudspeaker’s ability to survive a given input signal. This standard applies only to loudspeaker systems, and not to raw transducers.

 

This contrasts with the AES75 standard, which has one, and only one function,

Abstract: This standard details a procedure for measuring maximum linear sound levels of a loudspeaker system or driver using a test signal called M-Noise.

 

I don’t consider his apparently very high end electrical test gear "a volt meter" either and fail to see how his thread bare living room will make any difference on the measurements. From my colleagues, apparently the standards around electrical performance tests are not extensive and all over the place. They also say it does not matter much as long as the fundamentals of the test is communicated. The speaker testing is well beyond anything anyone else has done previously in online reviews. I don’t know all the ins and out of the electrical testing, but even if there are flaws, it still appears far more detailed than what has been done previously.

 

I will comment that listening is not done as per AES20, but no audio reviewer comes even close. AES20 requires a stereo pair, but it also places requirements on the room and placement, as well as the requirement for blind testing. Without an optimized conforming listening room, single speaker listening will provide the most repeatable results which appears to be done.

 

@kota1 ,  I am not sure what that link to the other thread here on audio science review is supposed to prove? A quick skim from the end and working back and I could not find any good examples of where anyone provided a solid founded argument to support what you claim. Looking from the outside in, I saw a lot of emotion driven writing, but little in the way of fact driven, logical arguments with supporting documentation. Some of the people responding should be giving their "adult" cards back.

 

Giving myself a reality check, I am not sure what any of this has to do with powered speakers. I feel like the new AES75 standard was just used as an excuse.

@thespeakerdude 

I refer you to the other threads here to discuss that other website, @donavabdear mentioned audio BS so I chimed in.

As for a "reality check" I am still waiting for you to post your system, your measurements, etc. So, reality check time, mine are posted in the virtual system area, still waiting on yours.

@kota1,

If you posting your system's pictures is supposed to lend any credence to what you say, I am sorry to say that for me, it does not sway me one way or the other. Like musicians often having crappy sound systems, I know some excellent people involved in speaker design who have relatively modest systems. Personal and professional passions don't always align. However, if you know speakers, it would take about 2 minutes of talking to them to know they know their stuff. Hence I place more value in what people say and know.

 

I will give you an example. You post pictures of near flat room corrected responses in your system pages using Audyssey apparently. Critical is your front left and right. I assume, based on some things you wrote that you think this is a really good thing. If you know the limitations of the Audyssey correction system (and Arc) you know this is not a good thing. That flat of a room response given the pre-corrected response means that other aspects of the response that are also critical were compromised. That is why advanced systems like Lynggdorf and Trinnov have both better measurement (out of necessity to work properly), and more flexibility on correction.  Dirac is somewhere in the middle, though I am looking forward to how Dirac Active performs in the wild, not to mention the expected patent battles.