Discuss The Viv Lab Rigid Arm

Woo hoo! Here we go again!

All I can say is that people are entitled to like what they want but then they are not true audiophiles.

@mijostyn Well, you have said many times we must ignore what our ears hear, so that bit is consistent. Except for when you later told me all sorts of distortion was "audible"! I must ask you to review the etymology and meaning of "audiophile" and then get back to me with an explanation that makes clear that if I like what I hear I am not a true audiophile, but if I like what you like, I qualify. Currently, it seems that if I don't like what I hear, I am an audiophile. Is that not the upshot of what you have said, or did you misspeak?

For everyone, not just the opinionated, is not what we like the most to listen what we should strive for more of? Both in terms of music and, perhaps in equipment for doing so? Does it matter if it isn't realistic etc? I happen to be rather familiar with a certain opera company's rather nice and relatively new hall. I spent a good deal of cash flying to see three or four operas a year there. I know what that sounds like. Can someone else tell me I must not set up a cartridge in a way that sounds right to my ears on those grounds?

Frankly, I don't give a hoot whether some self-appointed expert here considers me an audiophile. I know how much music I own, like and enjoy. I will continue to do so regardless. But the non-audiophile philosopher in me would like answers.

@dogberry 

@mijostyn did not say to 'ignore what our ears hear'.  He said (correctly) that our brains are not merely listening machines.  They are extremely sophisticated machines that process the raw sound that our ears hear with all sorts of other inputs like emotion and memory and psychological state.  We are unreliable at listening to a musical programme and perceiving it as it is.  If we think that what we perceive is exactly what our speakers put out then we are fooling ourselves.  This has nothing whatsoever to do with whether one is an 'audiophile' or not, whatever may be the meaning of that term (it is certainly not agreed).  The brain works for all of us in the same way as we are one species.  There are no 'golden ears' that can eliminate all those other inputs than the sound that comes from the speakers.

If you wish to set up a cartridge incorrectly to produce distortions that after processing in your brain you like, that is your prerogative.  But don't imagine that every time you listen you will perceive the same sound.  You may of course think that you do.

In this very thread he has said

what you think you hear is meaningless.

People have to get off this listening thing.

and then followed up with

The distortion caused by the Viv are is easily measured and if your system is really good and you know what you are listening to is quite audible.

No one can have it both ways. Either we trust what we hear or we don't. And, BTW, where did you get the idea I set up cartridges incorrectly to produce distortions I like?

None of us should tolerate being told that we don't know what we hear, or shouldn't like what we hear. That, I'm afraid, is nonsense. If you believe all our brains work exactly the same way, we should know that to be true as we will all have the same beliefs, come to the same answers etc etc. It doesn't seem to work out that way, as disproven by anyone who prefers chocolate over cheese, or vice versa. Individual taste comes into it. I'm not arguing for the loons who love weird plug-in filters with no working parts and no conceivable mechanism of action. Until we can measure everything, the best we have is our ears. Even if we could measure everything, might I not prefer one sound over another? I'm saying we like certain things. I like the sound of live opera in a modern opera house I am familiar with. How can you say I am wrong to do so?

@dogberry  Yes dogberry, distortion above a certain level is quite audible especially if it is not low order harmonic. Lower levels of distortion may be audible by people who know what to listen for. This has nothing to do with evaluating the low distortion performance of an audio system. What sounds right to some people can be woefully inaccurate. You can not trust what other people think a system sounds like unless you know that person and their system very well. Even then as @clearthinker has mention we are all subject to modifiers based on mood and internal biases that we might not even be aware of. 

Dogberry, I like both chocolate and cheese, but I am too damn fat and am desperately trying to avoid both of them. On the bright side listening to music and using my Weller soldering station do not cause weight gain.  

An audiophile is never entirely happy with their system. It is the same with racing cars, always looking for a way to go faster. Once you are totally satisfied you are not longer an audiophile. You are just a music lover. Not a bad place to be. Certainly a lot less expensive.

"What does audiophile mean?

a person who is very interested in and enthusiastic about equipment for playing recorded sound, and its quality: For an audiophile the quality of streamed music is sometimes inadequate.Feb 1, 2023"

I like both cheese and chocolate but I am too damn fat and am trying to avoid both. On the bright side playing with my Weller soldering station and listening to music are not fattening. Praise be to the lord.

If you are an opera buff then you REALLY need to go to Milan and see a show at Teatro alla Scala. It's like the Sistine Chapel for opera lovers.