Thiel Owners


Guys-

I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!

Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
jafant

JA - Thanks for asking, and I suspect an update is in order. I would characterize the present state of the HotRod Garage as ’distributed’. I have found suitable workspaces around the village with some being more suitable in warm than cold weather, and for different purposes. These developments represent real progress.

My work is expanding my knowledge / solutions beyond classic Thiel implementations. There were many areas of subtlety that were simply beyond consideration in a company whose vision was to bring outstanding performance at the most affordable price. I am developing and evaluating advances that would not have fit that classic Thiel paradigm. But cost-effectiveness is still of central concern. One could spend as much on a few caps as we spent on an entire speaker system.

As you know, I began experimentation on my CS2.2s because I had them. I have expanded that stable to 13 models (including subwoofers) with more lined up. As I’ve mentioned, I’ve been focusing on the 02, which has been quite a trip because nearly nothing in that product is identifiably ’Thielesque’. Any change I make, such as stranded to solid wire, makes it sound more identifiably ’Thiel’. The workhorses or any model have served as sandboxes for trial and error. The survivor outcomes of the trials are applicable to all models. And there’s a good, solid list of techniques and technologies.

This winter we’ve entered the realm of actual, presentable product development. The backbone platform is the SCS4 - fifth generation of the 02 portable 6.5" two-way. The SCS4 embodies virtually all signature developments from 1976 up its 2007 release. However, it still contains much room for improvement, some at very little cost. The driver and its control circuitry stay; much else gets attention, some of which might later require slight XO re-tweaking. Interested parties might put a pair of SCS4s on their radar.

As a blast from the past, I am expecting a pair of original 01s - first iteration. As an example of Jim’s instincts it shines a light on his innate values, much like a recording artist’s first album illuminates their inherent nature. Virtually nothing of the 01 survived the arc of his career, but the instincts did motivate all further work. As one example, Jim held high sensitivity / efficiency in high regard and employed minimal crossover circuitry in service to that goal. As he sought further refinement his crossovers became famously (infamously ?) complex, and system efficiency suffered. In his later work, as he was able to engineer his proprietary drivers toward greater linearity, as well as break ground with lighter moving mass and stronger magnetics, the speakers became considerably more efficient while achieving outstanding linearity. Anyhow, I will relish examining, measuring and listening to a pair of the first generation 01s, designed in the farmhouse with slide-rule and rented oscilloscope, and built in the garage with finish sprayed on the back porch. The product was unique enough to garner (first year CES) distribution in Germany, then other European success, which raised some eyebrows in the USA.

I would like to thank you and everyone on this forum and especially those of you who have joined as collaborators in these explorations. A final note is that after a year (more or less, I’ve lost track) the ClarityCaps along with the new Purity samples are scheduled to ship March 2 from Wales. Patience is a virtue. Satisfaction is more fun.

@tomthiel 

Where you working to somehow make the Thiel 02 time/phase coherent, or are you keeping the basic original design?

Also, sometimes I wonder what modded 2.7s would sound like.  Any idea what one would do to "upgrade" those?  I always think about a more solid-re-enforced front baffle...and I don't know...better caps?

 

 

Prof - I think of you as I have worked on the 02. Somehow the 02 just sounds 'right' to you. I get it. I have a pair of unmodified 02s, and my living situation has a pair in which I have tightened up the hand-wound coils and replaced the off-the-shelf stranded hookup wire with Thiel solid / teflon, upgraded components to ERSE quality, as well as modified the grille frames for shallower angles. But fundamentally they are still 02s with second order slopes in dual-positive polarity with the tweeter signal arriving a cycle before the bass signal - like most speakers in the world. I believe that discontinuity allows the ear-brain to give the perceived signal a free pass, not subjecting the signal the rigorous reality check it gives a (first order) integrated, coherent signal. It sounds just fine, plus it's easy to listen to and doesn't draw attention to itself.

When developing the 02 research workhorse, I iterated various platforms and settled on first order slopes with the woofer on a stand-off and constrained listener ear-height . . . because that configuration allowed so much more obviousness between the variables I was comparing (wire, caps, resistors, layouts, wave-launch fluid dynamics, etc.) I used CS.5 drivers and crossovers with small modifications for the different cabinet. That product bears little sonic resemblance to the original 02 - its purpose is a modifiable, shipable, accessible research platform.

So if someone like you would want to upgrade your 02s, I would recommend upgrading the XO passive parts, moving the XO out of its present placement (in direct line of fire of the woofer electromagnetic field, and tweaking the grille frames while leaving the second order format in place. Within a few months (after I get the long-awaited ClarityCaps), I'll be firming up those mods to one of my 02 pairs. I'll post that saga here.

There is some low-hanging fruit on the CS2.7. There are big (up to 400uF) electrolytic caps including the midrange series feed, which break Jim's lifelong rule of paralleling any cap over 100uF. There is room in the cabinet bottom (excellent) XO location to add those caps. There are also polyester film caps where polypropylenes would upgrade performance. I would advise a CC or Purity in the tweeter feed. Big bang for buck improvement. Mills resistors could be sprinkled into the series feed stations. These comments reference an internet in-cabinet image which represents a down-grade of original as-designed 2.7s that I saw in the Thiel factory and show-samples. Individual evaluation would be necessary to learn what's in there. 

 

 

 

 

 

And the MDF baffle, no matter how thick, is worth upgrading. I've settled on Torrified (heat-hardened) bamboo floor stock as an excellent, cost-effective brace material. Retrofitting isn't easy, but it's worth a good look. And the list goes on. I'm addressing older speakers first due to my learning curve as well as the need to re-specify the non-replacable drivers. The beat goes on.

tomthiel

 

Awesome! Update.  I know that you are quite happy to own an original 01 and 02 speakers. I have my sources on the lookout for more 01 and 02 Models for your discretion.  Must be a wonderful feeling, revisiting, the very Models that launched 

Thiel Audio. I knew that you would connect with the Past. Again, very cool discovery.  Thank you for the Hot Rod Garage findings as well.  Keep up the excellent work.

 

Happy Listening!