Thiel Owners


Guys-

I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!

Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
128x128jafant

jon_5912

 

Nice score. You will find a special place to implement those Viewpoints.

 

Happy Listening!

vair68robert

 

Thank You for sharing your Grill experience. My ear/brain could not detect any Sound quality decreasing off/on.

 

Happy Listening!

Grilles - The issue is multi-faceted and full of trade-offs. Early 3s had wooden 3-D frames stretched with fabric. Fabric absorbs some high frequencies; Jim voiced assuming fabric. 1983’s CS3 used the baffle-level of the frame to complete the baffle's rounded edge profile, and the aerial parts to support fabric away from the baffle. 1989’s CS5 had a 3-D steel frame with aerial fabric (away from the baffle.) The low (1/4") profile of the frame reduced its diffractive contribution to low enough to ignore. But we knew it was there. 1990 CS2.2 and 1992 CS3.6 used the baffle perimeter edge profile of the CS3-3.5, but eliminated the aerial structure. The all-MDF 3.6 frame proved too fragile and a side-bar reinforcement was added. We considered aluminum and steel and steel won for cost. We knew side-effects (more on that later.) 1995’s CS7 (my last industrial engineering contribution) again addressed the same issues and again landed on steel. Note, that baffle was cast concrete which required re-bar in the narrow areas beside the woofers. Those eddy currents could be heard and inferred from measurements. Note that 1999’s CS7.2 upgrade changed the frame to aluminum and eliminated the rebar via fiber reinforced mineral casting medium replacing concrete.

Directly to your question: 2002’s CS1.6 seems to be the first product with the thin steel plate supporting stretched fabric. The shallow baffle indentation was probably deemed not too problematic. An aluminum plate could not have been fastened with magnets. (BTW magnets near a driver are detrimental.) This ’fabric on plate with magnets’ solution persisted. The SCS4 has a formed steel cage in a shallow perimeter groove, adhered with magnets. Nice solution, with downsides. I’m replacing every element of it.

Regarding ’more on that later’. Jim was a disciplined pragmatist. Any and all design elements had to carry their cost burden. Incorporating ’better ways’ could increase costs which were doubled by the retailers’ 50 point margin. We were constantly juggling those equations. Although not sexy or particularly marketable, value engineering was a major aspect of Thiel’s approach, both in product outcome and in manufacturing technology.

So, concerning audibility, Thiel (which included Kathy as marketing director) played tug of war quite a bit. How much can be heard by whom (% of target market), etc. Every brand has a niche. As an aside, in the early 90s it was clear that something had to be done about home theater to stay viable. Thiel dove in and the rest is history. But there were other options considered. Among them was my idea of creating a brand offshoot (much like Lexus is to Toyota.) The name was to be ’Perigee - the closest approach’. It would follow a different paradigm that allowed and developed its own layers of sophistication to stretch the cost/performance paradigm. Jim’s principle objection was that it would cheapen the image of standard Thiel branded products. Fair enough. That route would have concentrated our resources in high resolution stereo playback. And it would have required product development collaboration beyond Jim's comfort zone and vision. 

More complete solutions for the subtleties of ultra-fidelity music reproduction exist and can be developed. Many were beyond our knowledge or scope, and remain so today. Some have come into focus or feasibility as time goes by. New materials science is a robust field. And there are old ideas that fell away and may be re-imagined today.

jafant , Tom and all 

Thank you , I don't know about the grill on the 2.4 but on 2.7 there is a metal dome over the coaxial speaker and I suspect that this has a lot to do with slight reduction in the mid and treble .  When I left the grills off I heard more definition in voices (like breathing or multiple voices ), I felt that I heard inside a acoustic guitar , listening to a full orchestra it sounded more alive . 

I know this sounds like a lot but as I confessed to prof I'm not very good at describing what I hear .  All I know is that listening now is just a little more work taking the grills on and off but nowhere near the work it takes listening to vinyl  in trying to get every last bit of detail .

I left the grills off my first speakers BIC Venturi 6 and my second set of speakers Image Concept 200 .  When I got the Thiels I started leaving them off but at that time before equipment changes, upgrading and room treatment installation they sounded bright to me , until Tom mentioned it I have been leaving the grills on so once again I have to say Thank You Tom .

tomthiel

 

Thank You for another Thiel Audio history lesson. Such wonderful information on Jim's design and thoughts for Grill implementation.

 

Happy Listening!