I'm in agreement with mceljo. I am a member of the American Society for Test Methodology and work in the chemical formulation discipline. Is a chemical that is 99.90% pure inferior to a 99.95% pure competitor that costs twice as much. Not usually. Without standardized test methods, test equipment, and multiple people doing the same testing (to minimize bias and error), meaningful comparisons between equipment are difficult to achieve. Marketing people love to claim cherry-picked specifications to try to get an edge for sales purposes. I'd like to see key reviewer get together and agree on how they are going to collaboratively test audio components - but that is not likely to happen. Then there is the subjective measurement/opinion ......
Nearly all manufacturers do not advertise/exhibit their product measurements? Why?
After my Audio Science Review review forum, it became apparent that nearly the only way one can determine the measurements of an audio product is wait for a review on line or in a publication. Most equipment is never reviewed or is given a subjective analysis rather than a measurement oriented review. One would think that manufacturers used tests and measurements to design and construct their products.
Manufacturers routinely give the performance characteristics of their products as Specifications. Those are not test measurements.
I searched the Revel speaker site for measurements of any of their speakers and could not find any. Revels are universally lauded for their exceptional reviewed measurements. Lack of published manufacturer measurements is true for nearly every speaker manufacturer I've searched for on line, perhaps several hundred. Same is true for amps, pre-amps, DACs, transports, turntables, well you get the picture. Do they have something to hide? I doubt the good quality products have anything to hide but poor quality products do.
ASR prides itself in providing "true" measurements that will aid in purchase decisions. Why don't the manufacturers provide these measurements so that reviewers can test if they are truthful or not?
Then there are the cables and tweaks for which I suspect that there are inadequate tests available to measure sonically perceived differences but which objectivists believe don't exist or are "snake oil."
Well, please chime in if you have some illuminating thoughts on the subject.
I would have loved to see manufacturers measurements on my equipment and especially those that I rejected.
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I got sucked into the rabbit hole and read far too much of this topic. I am torn between rolling on the floor laughing at the gymnastics some will do to discredit others, and feeling I need a shower to wash off the filth for the same reason. I do say @mastering92 , you have quite the sense of humor,
Hands up all the "failed" executives who have ever had a 1,000 people working under them. But that is getting away from audio. Before I respond, I can say that I personally, for professional reasons, find value in the work that ASR does. I can also say that there are many things about ASR, and more specifically the tone of the posters and the unearned for many of them, air of expertise they exude, that I do not like. I take what they do for what it is worth, predominantly competent measurements (at least for speakers, not all, but most). Attacking the equipment they use is not a great place to start if you want to win an argument. They are using the same, best in class, equipment that the better manufacturers would use. I can't offer you a professional perspective on the impact of ASR on the high end consumer audio industry (though I will make some comments later), but I can make a comment on the impact of ASR on the professional market, and that is in general education. I am surprised by how many will make comments like "I read about that on ASR". For me, that makes my job easier. What about the consumer market. Well this topic is up to what, 10 pages, most of it an attempt to discredit a website that according to so many "does not matter"? How many more topics just like this would I find here, or posts sprinkled around many topics? That is a lot of head space for something that does not matter. |
@kota1, we are in agreement about Amir's room. What a disaster. My ears are ringing just looking at it. I do respect those speakers though. There are some that ascribe to a view that we can adapt our hearing to complex rooms. Probably that is true, but also probably true only to a degree. I think that is an old view that is being rewritten as more become aware of what good room acoustics can do. On another topic, after reading this thread, and a comment you made I think I can clarify what Amir was saying about your ARC room correction measurements. I don't know why he didn't just say it instead of being confrontational. In your Arc posts, you show the Red measurement curve, the Black target curve, and the Green corrected curve. I think the point Amir was making without saying it, was that the Green corrected curve is a predicted corrected curve. It is not a measured curve post correction. Arc shows you a prediction of what the curve may look like after correction. I think he was implying you thought that was the actual curve post correction, not a predicted curve post correction. |
@amir_asr lost the measurement throwdown and I am now known in this thread as "king of all measurements". If you want the crown you must throw down and POST what you got 🙄 |
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