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Is Imaging Worth Chasing?

Man, am I going to be torn apart for this. But I says what I says and I mean what I says.

Here’s a long term trend I’ve noticed in the audio press. Specs that used to be front and center in equipment reviews have essentially disappeared. Total harmonic distortion, for instance. Twenty years ago, THD was the start and end of the evaluation of any amplifier. Well, maybe power, first. Then THD. Armed with those two numbers, shopping was safe and easy.

The explanation for the disappearance is not hard to figure. Designers got so good in those categories that the numbers became meaningless. Today, most every amp on the shelf has disappearingly low distortion. Comparing .00001 to .000001 is a fool’s errand and both the writers and the readers know it. Power got cheap, even before Class D came along to make it even cheaper. Anyone who tries bragging about his 100 watts will be laughed out of the audio club.

Stereophile still needed to fill it’s pages and audiophiles still needed things to argue about so, into the void, stepped imaging. Reviewers go on and on about imaging. And within the umbrella of imaging, they write separately about the images height, width, and depth. “I closed my eyes and I could see a rock solid picture of the violas behind the violins.” “The soundstage extended far beyond the width of the speakers.” And on and on.

Now, most everyone who will read this knows more about audio equipment than me. But I know music. I know how to listen. And the number of times that I’ve seen imaging, that I’ve seen an imaginary soundstage before me, can be counted on my fingers. Maybe the fingers of one hand.

My speakers are 5-6 feet apart. I don’t have a listening chair qua listening chair but I’m usually 8-9 feet back. (This configuration is driven by many variables but sound quality is probably third on the list.) Not a terrible set-up, is my guess from reading lots of speaker placement articles. And God knows that, within the limited space available to me, I have spent enough time on getting those speakers just right. Plus, my LS50s are supposed to be imaging demons.

I’ve talked to people about this, including some people who work at high-end audio stores. Most of them commiserate. It’s a problem, they said. “It usually only happens with acoustic music,” most of them said. Strike one. My diet of indie rock and contemporary jazz doesn’t have much of that. “You’ve got to have your chair set up just right. And you’ve got to hold your head in just the right place.” Strike two. Who wants to do that?

(Most of the people reading this forum, probably. But I can’t think of any time or purpose for which I’ve held my head in a vise-like grip like that.)

It happens, every now and then. For some reason, I was once right up next to my speakers. Lots of direct sound, less reflections. “The Name Of This Band Is Talking Heads” was playing. And I literally gave a start because David Byrne was standing on the coffee table. Cool.

But, generally speaking, imaging is something I only read about. And if that little bit of imaging is the dividend of dropping more money into my system, I’m not sure that I want to deposit into that account.

I think that I still have a few steps to take that will pay benefits other than imaging. But maybe the high-end is not for me.

paul6002
tonywinga's avatar
tonywinga
844 posts
 

This audio hobby is challenging and that is what makes it very exciting.  The whole point of stereo is to recreate the 3D soundstage of the musicians and singers.  Several challenges precede that goal however.  First, is tonal balance so that the music sounds right- sounds live.  Probably one of the biggest challenges we face is bass response.  Getting that last bottom octave is a challenge not just for speakers but for the room as well.  Then we have Signal to Noise and distortion to deal with. One type of distortion not often discussed is dynamic or responsiveness.  Can the music reach the crescendos and the decrescendos and do it like a live performance.  And when it comes to tonal balance and bass response, there is no right answer.  Just as musicians have their signature sound and the way they make music from their instruments, we audiophiles have our own artistic input into how the music is reproduced on our systems.  If one is fortunate to hear various hifi systems in their lifetime, they will have a handful of stereo systems that are defining moments in hifi for them.  My very first defining moment in hifi for me was a pair of modified Quad ESL's mounted in wooden frames for extra stiffness and powered by a Quicksilver Tube amp with a modified ARC SP-8 and a Sota Star turntable.  It was early 1988 and it was a magical moment for me.  I can still remember the magic of those speakers.  That started me on the "true" hifi journey.  

The best systems can not just meet the "basics" of audio reproduction but they also can paint a wide and deep 3 dimensional sound stage that can make you feel like you are there in the room with the musicians.  The best of these systems will make you feel like the musicians are moving around in the room with you.  It can actually feel creepy or spooky.  Since the day I heard those Quads, imaging has always been a priority for me.

Speaker placement, eliminating as much noise as possible, and room dampening are critical.  In addition, isolation of each component- including the speakers will sharpen and define the images.  The right cables are important too in order to bring the images into sharper focus.  Some level of imaging is possible with just about any stereo system.  Unfortunately, it seems like the more expensive speakers, amps, preamps and sources as well as cables contribute to reaching the pinnacle of imaging.  One other point- turn out the lights when you listen.  It makes a difference.  

Oh, and I did have a neighbor one time get up and leave the room.  He did not like the spooky imaging one bit.  Realistically, imaging is not for everyone.  Some do not even care about it at all.

bimmerman2's avatar
bimmerman2
86 posts
 

It’s one of the most important things in my opinion, and the goal of a properly set up space. If imaging and soundstage aren’t important to an individual in this game then why bother with high end, get a soundbar or a cheap set of earbuds and call it a day.

paul6001
98 posts
 

 

I have complete and utter faith in my speakers.
zlone—Thanks for the tip. Moving the speakers apart is one of the few options open to me so I’ll try that. Toe-in worries me. The only time I’ve ever heard any brightness from the LS50s (which TAS described as a "butterscotch sundae" of a speaker) is when they’re toed-in. But it’s certainly worth a shot.
edcyn—Poetry. A great description of imaging. I think it would be worth a chase to hear the singers walk around the stage. But between the limitations of my room and of my own ability—and desire—to hold my head in one place, I don’t think it’s a chase that I will ever win.
erik_squires
16,118 posts
 

I value transparency far more than imaging.  Couple of reasons.

First, I don't believe the hyper-etched imaging of close miked music to be at all realistic or transparent.  Quite the opposite.  Listening to live acoustic performances the "imaging" is actually pretty soft and laid back.

I also don't particularly think high jump-factor speakers are "realistic" unless you are are on the stage itself. 

curtdr
348 posts
 

@secretguy +1

@frogman +1

That said, if you’re not satisfied with your sound, speakers are the most efficient route to go. Good speakers will have both full robust and satisfying sound - the best also being non-fatiguing, not an exaggerated treble - AND have good to great imaging as well. It’s not a one-or-the-other situation. Even my modest old Epi 100s provide good realistic imaging as well as rich and non-fatiguing sound quality. My new Heresy IV are awesome for the rich and lively, dynamic sound, but they also have good imaging too and are very enjoyable...

Some people make what I believe is a mistake when they go for "imaging is everything" ... especially if that imaging is restricted to a narrow "sweet spot" in some lonely listening room. What about fullness, dynamism, real-music-ness...? What about the livability factor, being able to enjoy the sound without being tethered to one exact spot or listening position. Actually go to a live music show, which is as real as it gets, and are you obsessing over imaging, or are you enjoying the OVERALL presentation, like erik_squires just pointed out?

Just be careful if you do start to audition that you don’t mistake a pronounced treble end as equaling "imaging"... it’s an easy error to make. Go for rich speakers that you’d want to live with in your own environment. (this is why I like the Epi and Heresy that I mentioned... they’re really easy to live with, sound good from anywhere in the room, and then when I do want to sit in the sweet spot with the lights low, they accommodate that ALSO...)

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