Why HiFi Gear Measurements Are Misleading (yes ASR talking to you…)

ASR does use a 32 tone test - or something like that...which is better than just 1 KHz.

@amir_asr

My post about your graphs (the bar graph) with different types of listners in a selective order was removed by a moderator! I’ve reached out to her a few times regarding site issues that have since been fixed! 

Was this done in error? Please consider that the content of my post tried to get the crux of an issue regarding ASR measurements. Anyway, I can post some of it again. Wish I would have saved it...wasted my time writing all that out.

@amir_asr

I’m not here to argue with you, but since you are here and alive/well, I figured that sharing some of what I believe is right is worth a shot.

Audio _ Science _ Review

Like I said before,

Would you consider having your test results/measurements verified by other industry experts? I don’t see a problem with that. If I were you, I would welcome 3rd party validation of my work. Why? because that is a scientific process. I have a few friends who are actually scientists, work in labs etc. And we’ve spoken about this process many times before. If I’m actively posting reviews (like you) I would certainly want others to credit my work as correct, with repeatble results.

Perhaps an online petition could be made public; then have audiophiles from this forum, your forum, and others shoot their shot. Either you get audited, or you don’t. It’s that simple. Would you be open to such a challenge?

If no one it auditing your work (much like at a workplace within a finance department); we can’t just assume that junior accountant is doing flawless work. A CPA would be a watchful eye, so to speak. I think ASR needs one as well. Nothing against you or the folks on your site.or even @kenjit

Let’s have a balanced back and forth about this. + 6 dB or whatever. Cheers.

+1 @nyev such an excellent post.

@mastering92 the ASR community repeatedly states that they are "right" because of science. You’re simply encouraging replication by other parties to verify Amir’s measurements and results. I’m sure logistics and extra work between Amir and other parties will be the excuse, but then honestly, unsure if the "S" belongs between the "A" and the "R."

@mastering92 can you name any other review site that provides measurements that does this "auditing"? 

Manufacturers always have the ability to respond and provide high quality measurements to refute the results including testing methodology. 

In the scientific world, publishing is normally the audit process. You publish and encourage others to replicate your results. Contrary to your assumptions I don't participate on ASR though I do read, mainly speaker reviews. As I wrote above ASR publishes reviews from other people. I also see others publishing their results measuring the same products ASR does though obviously a limited subset. ASR is obviously not perfect, but all the arguments I am seeing are sour grapes.

Here is something so obvious, true, and valid that I am astounded and amazed that anyone would dispute it but of course those who have an ego to protect or snake oil to sell will rise to their feet immediately to protest usually with illogical personal attacks:

If you want to review a car, you must drive it.

If you want to review a movie, you must watch it.

If you want to review an audio component, you must listen to it. If you do not listen to it, you can not be sure how it sounds even if you have measured it. That is because you have not listened to it and how any one can dispute, argue, or oppose that truth only reveals, displays and demonstrates a fundamental, basic, essential ignorance of the premise of science, or has been blinded by greed and/or conceit

@thespeakerdude

You say that publishing is normally the audit process in the scientific world.

Scientific papers are subject to peer review. Publishing the results instantly is not a great idea. There is always someone more qualified to do a job. And that person ends up auditing and making sure the work is suitable for release.

Audibly transparent is a catch-phrase I hear all too often. More descriptive language is required...such as using: Sounds Like? An Audio Glossary J. Gordon Holt |

Furthermore, large discrepancies between mass customer reviews and measurements still exist with plenty of gear reviewed on ASR. You can find an audio product that has plenty of positive reviews, mentions particular sonic traits, etc. from numerous online stores (not just amazon). and even impressions from audiophiles in person whose experience lined up with yours almost exactly.

Then you go to ASR, only to find that product does not score well there. And yet, we find a mountain of information from others that suggests otherwise...actually the total opposite.

I think it would be great to hear from @amir_asr about 3rd party testing his measurements/results...let the man speak. 

@clearthink I agree 100%. The experience is all-important vs measurements alone.