Why HiFi Gear Measurements Are Misleading (yes ASR talking to you…)

@amir_asr , thank you for sharing your perspectives. I have an education in computer engineering. But being an audiophile, I just don’t agree with the position that the science and measurements can totally explain our perceptions. I have a fundamental belief that science cannot explain all of the dimensions that impact our subjective interpretation of physical sound waves. Why? You have suggested folks get upset when ASR rejects a component that they subjectively praise. I think you are correct in many, many cases. It’s why people get so fired up about ASR. In my case I don’t care if ASR rejects a component that I subjectively enjoy - that doesn’t bother me in the slightest because if I enjoy it that’s all that matters to me. So why do I follow my subjective judgement over science? I simply don’t believe that science can FULLY explain, at our present level of understanding, how sound waves are subjectively interpreted by humans. Why do I believe this? My own blind testing experiments, over decades, that offer results that are not explainable. Differences in power cords, the effect of burn-in, vibration control products etc. Sure there are theories why these things make a difference even when blind testing, even with generalized theories that are proven, but to my knowledge none are proven in the specific application of HiFi audio.

My engineering buddies think I’m absolutely nuts when I say music servers and USB cables make a difference in audio, but, with their knowledge, I can’t blame them at all for coming to those conclusions, as I have the same knowledge. But the difference is, they’ve not had the blind subjective test experiences that I’ve had, which leads me to question whether science really knows everything about the manner in which humans subjectively perceive sound waves.

Without going into details that may be taboo on this board, I don’t consider myself to be a particularly spiritual person, despite the objective evidence that our universe could be part of some grand design. But if I had some sort of personal subjective experience that clarified a particular spiritual path for me, I could see myself heading down that path. But nothing remotely close to this has happened. But in the world of audio, it has! That’s why I feel we need to go beyond the science!

What we perceive through our senses is not at all a “fantasy world” as you have suggested. That “fantasy world” is actually all that we have.  Sure, measurements can tell us what is happening in the world.  But no measurement, as of yet, can explain how we perceive it.

ASR does use a 32 tone test - or something like that...which is better than just 1 KHz.

@amir_asr

My post about your graphs (the bar graph) with different types of listners in a selective order was removed by a moderator! I’ve reached out to her a few times regarding site issues that have since been fixed! 

Was this done in error? Please consider that the content of my post tried to get the crux of an issue regarding ASR measurements. Anyway, I can post some of it again. Wish I would have saved it...wasted my time writing all that out.

@amir_asr

I’m not here to argue with you, but since you are here and alive/well, I figured that sharing some of what I believe is right is worth a shot.

Audio _ Science _ Review

Like I said before,

Would you consider having your test results/measurements verified by other industry experts? I don’t see a problem with that. If I were you, I would welcome 3rd party validation of my work. Why? because that is a scientific process. I have a few friends who are actually scientists, work in labs etc. And we’ve spoken about this process many times before. If I’m actively posting reviews (like you) I would certainly want others to credit my work as correct, with repeatble results.

Perhaps an online petition could be made public; then have audiophiles from this forum, your forum, and others shoot their shot. Either you get audited, or you don’t. It’s that simple. Would you be open to such a challenge?

If no one it auditing your work (much like at a workplace within a finance department); we can’t just assume that junior accountant is doing flawless work. A CPA would be a watchful eye, so to speak. I think ASR needs one as well. Nothing against you or the folks on your site.or even @kenjit

Let’s have a balanced back and forth about this. + 6 dB or whatever. Cheers.

+1 @nyev such an excellent post.

@mastering92 the ASR community repeatedly states that they are "right" because of science. You’re simply encouraging replication by other parties to verify Amir’s measurements and results. I’m sure logistics and extra work between Amir and other parties will be the excuse, but then honestly, unsure if the "S" belongs between the "A" and the "R."

@mastering92 can you name any other review site that provides measurements that does this "auditing"? 

Manufacturers always have the ability to respond and provide high quality measurements to refute the results including testing methodology. 

In the scientific world, publishing is normally the audit process. You publish and encourage others to replicate your results. Contrary to your assumptions I don't participate on ASR though I do read, mainly speaker reviews. As I wrote above ASR publishes reviews from other people. I also see others publishing their results measuring the same products ASR does though obviously a limited subset. ASR is obviously not perfect, but all the arguments I am seeing are sour grapes.

Here is something so obvious, true, and valid that I am astounded and amazed that anyone would dispute it but of course those who have an ego to protect or snake oil to sell will rise to their feet immediately to protest usually with illogical personal attacks:

If you want to review a car, you must drive it.

If you want to review a movie, you must watch it.

If you want to review an audio component, you must listen to it. If you do not listen to it, you can not be sure how it sounds even if you have measured it. That is because you have not listened to it and how any one can dispute, argue, or oppose that truth only reveals, displays and demonstrates a fundamental, basic, essential ignorance of the premise of science, or has been blinded by greed and/or conceit