Why HiFi Gear Measurements Are Misleading (yes ASR talking to you…)


About 25 years ago I was inside a large room with an A-frame ceiling and large skylights, during the Perseid Meteor Shower that happens every August. This one time was like no other, for two reasons: 1) There were large, red, fragmenting streaks multiple times a minute with illuminated smoke trails, and 2) I could hear them.

Yes, each meteor produced a sizzling sound, like the sound of a frying pan.

Amazed, I Googled this phenomena and found that many people reported hearing this same sizzling sound associated with meteors streaking across the sky. In response, scientists and astrophysicists said it was all in our heads. That, it was totally impossible. Why? Because of the distance between the meteor and the observer. Physics does not allow sound to travel fast enough to hear the sound at the same time that the meteor streaks across the sky. Case closed.

ASR would have agreed with this sound reasoning based in elementary science.

Fast forward a few decades. The scientists were wrong. Turns out, the sound was caused by radiation emitted by the meteors, traveling at the speed of light, and interacting with metallic objects near the observer, even if the observer is indoors. Producing a sizzling sound. This was actually recorded audibly by researchers along with the recording of the radiation. You can look this up easily and listen to the recordings.

Takeaway - trust your senses! Science doesn’t always measure the right things, in the right ways, to fully explain what we are sensing. Therefore your sensory input comes first. You can try to figure out the science later.

I’m not trying to start an argument or make people upset. Just sharing an experience that reinforces my personal way of thinking. Others of course are free to trust the science over their senses. I know this bothers some but I really couldn’t be bothered by that. The folks at ASR are smart people too.

nyev

@prof : Matt Hooper. I am curious, with all the defending and Good Samaritan ASR work you do here, did Master Amir and his lieutenants forgive you for what you did on ARS? Just curious. He loves you again? No broken heart bad feelings?

 

For the below: please point to one single “subjective aspect of audio” thread you still enjoy and participate in. I am genuinely curious. In my humble opinion, all Bs. You know where you belong. What you say is just pure BS, to make people see you seriously for what you are NOT. See your subsequent posts below I am sure are coming, more Catholics than the Pope (Read more Amir than Amir)

I’ve been a member of Agon for a long time and still enjoy this place for discussing the subjective aspects of audio.

@nyev

I appreciate the philosophical spirit in which you made your original post and have presented your view in the thread.

However, the reasoning in your OP is very problematic. It is a version of the "They called Galileo crazy" argument.

"They" (in the modern reference, now it’s science) thought something wasn’t possible but "it turned out they were proven wrong!"

Yes, that is true sometimes. But you should see the issue immediately: HOW was anyone proven correct? By....The Science! Right?

In other words, by strong, rigorous methods of empirical inquiry! That is how we weed out the justified claims from all the competing ones!

There are countless ideas that people believe, but the only rational way to sift through which ones are likely or true is to wait for the strong evidence any claim demands!

Remember that for literally EVERY crazy idea anyone has ever proposed, every bit of pseudoscience, every spiritual claim, every wild "cure," claim you can find at your run of the mill New Age Festival, you will always find people saying "You shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss this, science hasn’t explained EVERYTHING you know, and people like Galileo were thought crazy at first too!!!!"

It is THE go-to hand-wave in defense of bunkum. And that should be a huge red flag for you.

So the problem isn't that you are necessarily wrong in what you may happen to believe; it's that your reasoning can be used "in defense" of literally anything, and hence it’s not much of a reason to help justifying believing anything in particular.

Since people can make up any claim they like, and also people can imagine all sorts of things, when faced with a dubious claim, for instance a technically controversial claim in audio, the rational stance isn’t to say "so it’s ok to believe this because who knows if it will be found true via science in the future." It’s to WAIT for science (or engineering) to sift THAT claim out of the countless other competing claims, as actually being true or justified.

And also, if CURRENT electrical and psycho acoustic theory and practice points to a claim being highly unlikely, then it makes sense to want some rigorous evidence in favor of that claim. Anecdotes are not that evidence.

BTW, you say you’ve distinguished all sorts of things in blind tests, including USB and AC cables? Can you describe your test protocol?

 

 

 

 

@thyname 

 

First: please interact like an adult.  Thanks.

 

For the below: please point to one single “subjective aspect of audio” thread you still enjoy and participate in. I am genuinely curious 

 

 

You don't come off as "genuinely" interested in your post to me, but it is curious that you've been here a long time yet seem unfamiliar with my many posts describing the sound of equipment.   I have for instance a years long on-going thread - currently almost 76,000 views! - in which I report my subjective impressions of many speakers as I audition them:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/contemplating-devore-speakers-and-others-long-audition-report-of

 

 

 

 

@prof : so, you mean you own the Devore speakers?

And I am very curious: why do you pretend to be something / someone you are not? Everyone knows where you belong in the Great Debate. Do you have the testicular fortitude to say it? there is no shame. Let’s say it together: Amir. is. my. master.God.Holiness 

@prof : so, you mean you own the Devore speakers?

Huh?   No I ended up choosing Joseph Audio Perspective speakers.   Still love the heck out of the Devore sound, but wasn't ultimately a good fit for my room.  What possible point do you think your question makes?

 

And I am very curious: why do you pretend to be something / someone you are not? Everyone knows where you belong in the Great Debate. Do you have the testicular fortitude to say it? 

 

What in the world are you on about?  You just asked for an example of a subjective oriented thread in which I participate...I give you a WHOPPER of just such a thread, and now you are dancing around to some weird conspiracy theory or something?

What...I've spent the last 5 years on that thread exchanging only subjective impressions of gear...but it was all in the service of a cover for my Secret Identity in which I don't REALLY care about the subjective impressions that fill that thread?

You are clearly not here for a meaningful or serious exchange.  So long...